Real Teens Discuss School Discipline in Online Forum


by Pi Kapp <Pikappbro@beer.com>

What follows is a rendition of a real bulletin board for teenagers that was active from mid-1998 through early 1999. The predominant subject on the bulletin board (though this may not have been the owner's intent) is school paddling in the United States. I believe that the majority of the posts dealing with corporal punishment are exactly what they appear to be--real teens discussing their schools' methods of discipline. Adults or others, participating for their own gratification rather than for a genuine discussion of school discipline, may however have made some posts.

Toward the end, there were a substantial number of posts dealing with a young man at a New Jersey high school who was apparently punished with a complete denial of access to the school's restrooms, being forced instead to attend school in adult-size diapers. This revelation, besides describing a gross violation of public health standards and fundamental human rights, led to a large number of scatological or otherwise yucky posts, which I removed from this document. Several posts remain that make oblique references to the issue, but most have been edited out.

Two other major changes have been made. In the original bulletin board, the oldest posts are at the bottom of the page and the newer ones were added to the top as they were posted. This makes the board difficult to read, so I reversed the order. Also, since the board is hosted on a server in Malaysia, the posts are timestamped with a different hour than that where the vast majority of the posts were written--the central United States. Using a simple find-and-replace feature on my word processor, I adjusted the times (though not the dates) to what I believe would have been Greenwich minus six, or U. S. Central Standard Time. Hopefully this adds a bit of coherence and realism to the posts.

As of 2 August 2000, the bulletin board is located at http://www. teenworld. com. my/forums/boards/teachers. html.

Enjoy!


Steph ntcp@hotmail. com Wednesday, May 13, 1998, 6:32 AM

It seems like they have changed this site all around.

I'll kick it off then. Before the morons invaded the old education forum site we were starting to get somewhere on the subject of spanking in schools and home.

I am now 19, still get spanked at home and had my worst episodes at school.

Please feel free to contact me or get this site going so we can debate it again.

The cane is the instrument that has been used most on me especially at school. Let us get this out in the open and talk about it!


Kevin Monday, May 18, 1998, 4:53 AM

Stephanie, where did you go to school? I went to school in Texas where paddling was permitted and still is. I received quite a few paddlings throughout the years. I got my last one only four weeks prior to my graduation. It was a female teacher who paddled me which made it even more embarrassing. Was corporal punishment frequently used at your school?


mark Monday, May 18, 1998, 9:03 AM

Any of you got paddled by female teachers?


Ryan Tuesday, May 19, 1998, 1:22 AM

Last week I was paddled by our female vice-principal. I received 5 swats on my buttocks. Ouch!


Mark Tuesday, May 19, 1998, 7:03 AM

Ryan- Where is your school-city?


Blake ClogGuy@hotmail. com Wednesday, May 20, 1998, 7:04 PM

I am really against it.. I mean, I think that spanking is a pretty personal punishment, and I am pretty positive it is not in a teacher's job description! If they feel that the punishment, whether it be just a spanking, or using a cane like Stephanie said, should reach that level, then they should take that up with the parents and have them carry out the punishment.


Andy Wednesday, May 20, 1998, 10:49 AM

I am in 10th grade and I got 3 swats about a month ago from a female asst principal. She made me bend over and grab my ankles. Even though she is a female they still stung.


Ryan Wednesday, May 20, 1998, 12:19 AM

Mark, my school is in Wharton, Texas.


Tash Saturday, May 23, 1998, 4:28 PM

Some guy in a chat room told me kids in some schools got hit on their underpants or even bare. girls too!! was he _s_h_i_t_ting me or what??


Carl peroty@hotmail. com Saturday, May 23, 1998, 9:58 PM

there is no spanking at my school. But i have this weird desire to get a spanking or at least give one. Can anyone relate?


Ryan Sunday, May 24, 1998, 2:44 AM

Andy, what did you do to "earn" the paddling?


collin Monday, May 25, 1998, 8:22 AM

I am 16 and do not get spanked at home anymore but i sometimes i wish i was getting some from my parents... as carl had said. I used to be punished and once , i even got it with the hose. that was when i was 12. Well, all these has ended for me since 12 and thats it. By the way, i do not understand, as to what age we are to stop receiving strappings and spankings.?! anyone got an idea to that? Besides, for wnat do you get strapped for ?i used to get caned alot for bad exam results and bad behavior alot. I still get bad results and behave badly but i dont get punished anymore...i am not used to it.


Stephanie ntcp@hotmail. com Tuesday, May 26, 1998, 12:58 AM

Tash

Contact me sometime and I would like to talk to you about it.

You had better believe it goes on in some places!

Stephanie


Kristi Tuesday, May 26, 1998, 8:09 AM

Whats with all this talk about spanking in schools. I wrote in before when I had to go to Saturday School for smoking in the girls' room. Saturday Detention was the absolute pits. I know getting paddled in school must really suck, too, but I would rather get a paddling than have to serve a long detention. At least with the spanking its over in 10 or 15 minutes. Four hours of detention just drags out forever -- it is sooooooooooooooooo boring! I'm not saying you guys are lucky to get paddled at school, but my school doesn't do that. I think you're lucky that you don't have to do Saturday School detentions like I have to do at my school.


Carl peroty@hotmail. com Wednesday, May 27, 1998, 1:52 PM

Poetic vengence

I think it is TOTAL CRAP what they did to you!!!! i am a avid poet and if they found my work they would think that i am a psychopath too. But all that _s_h_i_t_ about not having your freedom of speech until you are 18 is _s_h_i_t_. That means that you are not a person and that no laws apply to you until you are 18. Which we all know IS NOT TRUE!!!!

Fight that academic BULL_s_h_i_t_!!!!!!


Martin Ford m. ford@keypals. org Thursday, May 28, 1998, 6:32 PM

I am totally against teachers hitting kids at school BUT let me tell you this story. I live in San Francisco. This 70 year old short teacher hit this teenager in the chest for acing up in class very lightly. This teen is SUING the teacher. I think this is total bull _s_h_i_t_ what this spoiled teen is doing. I mean, GEEZ. How hard can a 70 year old teacher hit? Plus, that teen shouldn't have been acting up in class. I bet they are doing it for the money. GEEEEZ


Keith Friday, May 29, 1998, 8:24 PM

I think spanking should be allowed in school--even in high school...


allen allen@hotmail. com Saturday, May 30, 1998, 7:02 PM

HI!:I am doing a survey on paddling in schools. if you have been paddled in school, please contact me at allen_63@hotmail. com.


allen allen_63@hotmail. com Saturday, May 30, 1998, 7:48 PM

would Andy and Rynn Please e-mail me at allen_63@hotmail. com i need some info


rifq rifq@hotmail. com Friday, June 05, 1998, 5:50 PM

you guys are facing a serious problem if you guys are being spanked by your teachers. It's pathetic all you guys need to do is complain. It's ok if parents spank to discipline you but that's it. You guys should just be put on detention or something but spanking and hitting is really the pits!


tom t177@web. tv. net Tuesday, June 09, 1998, 12:09 AM

i think a good bare borttom spanking is good sometimes


Rick deesr@hotmail. com Monday, June 15, 1998, 9:56 PM

I too have received corporal punishment at school and at home. I never liked it but I think I deserved it. I usually had done the same thing wrong or broken the same rule several times before I wound up getting whipped. It hurt like hell, but it also made me think twice before I did the same stupid mistake


sZusZanna Tuesday, June 16, 1998, 5:40 PM

I am tottaly against hitting children in school. Give them detention or let their parents deal with them, but teachers have absolutly no right at all to hit a kid!!!! If one of my teachers ever threatened to hit me or actually tried it, I would probly go off on them because it is not their place to know if I should be punished physically or not.


Alan Friday, June 26, 1998, 8:11 AM

I attend a high school in North Carolina and will be a senior next year. I was paddled twice during the past school year. One time I received two swats from a female teacher for talking in class. The other paddling was administered by the principal (four swats). Both paddlings stung a lot and left me with a sore butt. I hope theyīll abolish this out-dated practice soon.


BILLY DAGID@WORLDNET. ATT. NET Saturday, July 04, 1998, 1:32 PM

IM A BOY 18 I JUST GOT SPANKED FOR GETTING BAD GRADES IN MY FRESHMAN YEAR OF COLLEGE. I WAS SO ASHAMED.


Kirzon husnock@hotmail. com Saturday, July 04, 1998, 6:51 PM

I don't condone spanking, but in some cases, it's the only way for kinds to learn that what they are doing is wrong.


Brad R. Wednesday, July 08, 1998, 7:47 AM

In 8th grade last year I got paddled 3 times by the PE coach--first 1 swat for forgetting my locker combination. Then me and 3 other guys got it for making fun of another boy. The other 3 guys all got 1 swat and I thought I was getting one too but he made me bend back over and get another one because he had already spanked me before. In the spring he gave me 3 swats for arguing with a teacher. The 3 swats were in front of the PE class and it was the shame more than the pain that got to me. It sounds like there are guys in high school still getting spanked but I hope my high school doesn't.


Kevin betough@iname. com Monday, July 13, 1998, 11:51 PM

Regarding all the talk about spanking, swats and whether they should still be allowed, if you are curious you should check out http://www. aap. org/member/corpchrt. htm for a chart on which U. S. states still allow the school paddle in their laws. While it is most common in the lower grades, it is not really rare in some parts of the South for high school guys to get paddled butts, even in 1998.


mike downlow024@aol. com Thursday, July 16, 1998, 8:30 PM

I am 15 and still get paddeled at home and in school in my breifs. i think a good spanking is good. sum people just dont learn.!!!!


adel Thursday, July 30, 1998, 10:08 PM

ok For all you sadists out there who actually believe spanking is good or works I have a little story for you. I was always spanked at home I attended a regular school where you could be spanked too. I had and still have behaviour problems so as you can imagine I recieved many spankings. But all the spankings in the world weren't going to make me behave right. Eventualy I was expelled and now I attend a special ed school for kids with behaviour problems. It is a spanking free zone and I am very much improving. My school is made up of kids from many different backgrounds but one very noticable common factor is that the majority of them were spanked at some point in their lives. Of course my problems are no way just to do with the spankings but things would be much better had i not recieved them. You may argue that spanking doesn't work for all kids or it is ok as long as you show them love. But really children need to be spoken gently to of course told off when neccesary but all spanking will do is scare, humiliate and anger them. And every spanking they get will make them feel less and less of a person less and less good about them selves.


Dustin Thursday, August 20, 1998, 10:00 PM

Hi everybody! I attend a private christian school in Tennessee where corporal punishment is permitted. Teachers can either struck a student`s palms with a leather strap or spank his/her bottom with the open hand. Strange but still true in 1998! Two years ago I had my seat warmed by a female teacher which was absolutely embarrassing. Iīve tried to stay out of trouble ever since.


Perry Friday, August 21, 1998, 10:48 AM

Dustin -- I can't believe teachers can hit your hands with a strap! I attend a Christian school that spanks, but only on the butt (a hand or ruler on the seat of the pants for boys and girls, or for boys only, on the underpants}. Why do they hit your hands with a strap, but your butt only with the hand?


Dustin Friday, August 21, 1998, 7:11 AM

Perry, I donīt know why they use the strap only on the hands and not on the buttocks. Itīs just the way it is at my school. A strapping is limited to four strokes while a spanking with the open hand can and usually will involve more swats. Strange that boys can be spanked on the underwear at your school. Did you ever receive corporal punishment in school?


Don donseel@hotmail. com Monday, August 24, 1998, 6:35 PM

Perry & kids in Tennessee: You're not the only ones that get the strap on the open palm of the hand. I attend a Christian School in Alberta Canada where they still use the strap on the open hands. They always phone your parents first and then another teacher or adult from the school must be present in the princiapl's office when they do it. It's done with a rubber twined strap (looks like they cut piece off an old thrashing machine conveyor belt) about 20--24 inches long and about 2 inches wide and less than a quarter inch thick. Yiou usually get three on each hand but I once got five on each hand for throwing chauk at the shop teacher. Boy did that sting... and my hands were red for a almost a full day.


Kyle Monday, August 24, 1998, 6:34 AM

It's a new school year and the Dean of Boys at our high school has brought in still another new punishment. Three of us got caught chewing tobacco last week and we had to each take six swats, PLUS this new thing called two weeks of punishment status. The swats were pretty much the punishment he gave out last year if guys got caught chewin, but I think my friend in the spring got only 3 or 4--definitely less than six. The paddle has holes in it. I don't know if that's why but it makes your butt burn like crazy! The swats are bad enough, but this new punishment status thing is nasty. You have to see the P. E. coach each morning at six for a one-hour workout, and then stay after school cleaning up trash for an hour each afternoon. The first workout was today and Coach was really tough on us. I hope I can make it all two weeks! Since chewing tobacco doesn't hurt others, we weren't fighting or stealing or nothing, doesn't everybody think this is too hard? Wouldn't the swats have been enough?


jake Monday, August 24, 1998, 8:14 AM

Any of you got paddled by women teachers...hows it


Kyle Tuesday, August 25, 1998, 8:05 PM

Jake: If you scroll down to June and May postings you will see that Alan, Andy and Ryan all got swats from female teachers or administrators, and all said they hurt. Kevin got punished too, but talked about the embarrasment because it was a female. I got hit with a paddle by a woman assistant principal in a summer program in seventh grade once--it stung bad but was just one swat, though it surprised me how tough she hit. Still, it was nothing like the six we got in high school, from a man, for snuff chewing last week--see posting earlier today.


carter Wednesday, August 26, 1998, 6:14 AM

i don't think parents should be phoned before a spanking is given. I got the strap and had to explain it to my mom and dad


Jeff Thursday, August 27, 1998, 3:48 PM

Carter:

Where do you go to school? At my school in Oklahoma, 8th grade, they use the paddle, not the strap--but without calling home. When I got swats they didn't call my parents as far as I know. My friend says parents can tell the school in advance not to spank you, but most parents in my town are pretty conservetive and don't do that.


simon Friday, August 28, 1998, 5:06 PM

WHY DO YOU GUYS PUT UP WITH ADULTS SPANKING YOU? IN THE CIVILISED WORLD SPANKING AT SCHOOL IS TOTALLY ILLEGAL. MAYBE THE USA WILL CATCH UP WITH HUMAN RIGHTS ONE DAY!!!


Kyle Friday, August 28, 1998, 7:54 PM

Simon: Gosh, I don't know. Since I'm one of the ones who posted this week about having to take swats (plus two weeks of morning workouts and picking up trash), I read your posting and wondered if I should have been angry at being paddled and was it against human rights. Frankly, while it hurts pretty bad, it's over in a little bit and it makes the point. Between the sore butt and everybody else hearing about it, I think that was enough so that I won't chew tobacco at school again, and maybe a few others won't either. So, in that way, maybe the paddle worked.

Frankly, the swats didn't bother me nearly as much as the rest of the punishment. IT SUCKS having to go to school early every morning for two weeks, to run, do push- ups and sprint, and then stay late and pick up trash. I'm still not half-way through yet! It's a lot worse than the paddle, and the pain lasts a LOT longer. What does everybody else think? Is the paddle against human rights?


Kyle Friday, August 28, 1998, 7:59 PM

P. S. to Simon: At our school you are allowed to tell them you don't want the paddle. But, if you do that, you are suspended, you get zeroes in your classes while you're gone, your parents get ticked at you and the universities you apply to can find out. So most guys I know take the paddle. But you don't have to.


Kevin Friday, August 28, 1998, 8:08 AM

Dear Simon and Brianne:

Brianne, you are right. New Jersey does prohibit the paddle in schools, according to http://www. aap. org/members/corpchrt. htm .

Simon, I guess I feel like Kyle. Spanking doesn't violate human rights as long as there aren't permanent marks or _s_e_x_ual abuse or something. Do you think spankings are any less humane than cleaning up "excrement" like Brianne had to, or the loss of bathroom privileges that other people wrote about here? (Now THAT is gross!)

What do others beleive?

Sincerely, Kevin


aiden Saturday, August 29, 1998, 5:00 PM

Violation of human rights????

As a basic rule ask yourself this... If you worked in an office would the boss be able to do it to you without anyone complaining.

Can a boss paddle his employees? no Can a boss stop employees going to the bathroom? no Can a boss make an employee come to work early and do push ups then clean the office after work? no

These are all therefore violating your human rights as children and are only allowed in the USA BECAUSE THEY THINK YOU ARE NOT IMPORTANT.


steve Friday, September 11, 1998, 4:05 AM

Steph

I would very much like to know about you experiences of caning and spanking. How was it administered at school? how often ? at what ages? what do you get at home? what about friends--boys and girls? Steve


Robin rschatz@netusa1.net Saturday, September 12, 1998, 12:51 AM

Kyle--I definitely agree with you that the punishment was way too severe. How old or you? Considering the fact that when you turn 18 it's perfectly legal and tobacco use is very common in college right outside the classroom. What was hurting you physically and mentally so suppose to do to help you? I'm sorry you've received corporal punishment so much. E-mail me if you need to talk about it. Carter--Did you get more when you went home? That would definitely suck. I think the reason school's call parents is because they don't want to get sued for child abuse or anything. But if it got you in worse trouble, that is completely unfair. Your parents should realize you already got it once and that should be enough.


Kyle Saturday, September 12, 1998, 7:19 AM

Robin: Thanks. I'm over it now, but it really did suck. Not so much the paddle--of course it hurts but you recover quick, and most guys in rural Texas are used to it in school. But those workouts every morning and clean-up duty every afternoon were nasty! Now that the school year is a little more under way, more guys are getting it and everybody is complaining. Our class president even got it yesterday--we'll see what the student council says about this after he does his time! (I'm 16.)--Kyle


Scott Collins Saturday, September 12, 1998, 7:44 AM

My school in Texas has the same thing Kyle's does, but they call it "The List." If you're a girl--or a handicapped guy--on the list you have to clean up the school and do maintence work from 6 to 7:30 every morning, and for the regular guys they give you running and workouts from 6:15 to 7:15 (I found it amounts to at least an hour and ahalf because it takes time to change before and shower after). And everybody on the list has to work at school on Saturdays from 8 to noon. My best friend is down there this morning. There's no work after school, though, 'cause a lot of kids have jobs.

Everybody hates it. The difference from Kyle's school is that when they started this a couple of years ago at my school they stopped giving licks with the paddle. It was a substitute. I had licks in junior high school and think I would probably take them instead of "the list" if I could choose, but my older brother said the paddle in high school before they changed to the "list" was really, really bad and I wouldn't have wanted it.


Rosie chumba266@aol. com Sunday, September 13, 1998, 7:49 PM

Andy- what the hell are you talking abou, "even though it was a female techer" ? You think we don't have any strength??? Sorry to act like a fanatic, I just hate when people act _s_e_x_ist in anyway at all. Oh, and i don't think it was right for a female teacher-or any teacher!-to hit you in school. i don't think they should use corporal punishment in school, and if they do, it should be administered by a teacher of the same gender. But if it taught you that girls can have just as much strength as boys, then it wasn't a bad thing!


Kevin Thursday, September 17, 1998, 10:43 PM

Are we missing something here?

Kyle didn't like the pushups, running and clean-up chores, but he was chewing snuff--which can cause cancer!

Alan says the paddle made his butt sore, but he was breaking rules--talking in class.

And so on.

Isn't punishment SUPPOSED to suck? You can argue whether spankings are OK or not, or whether they should do something else instead. And that's fine to say yes or no. But if you break the rules, they're not SUPPOSED to give you milk and cookies!


Kyle Thursday, September 17, 1998, 3:24 PM

Kevin, I just gotta respond!

Look, the purpose for a forum is to allow people to disagree and your opinion is fine. But I want to make sure you understood what I said!

I DIDN'T say I shouldn't have been punished, and I DID say that I've stopped chewing tobacco after I got in trouble. All I wondered is whether I needed two different types of punishment. I don't know if you ever had to take the paddle, but at least with our Dean of Boys, six swats is no easy thing. The board has holes in it, and he always swings full force. Maybe your butt is as tough as your forum postings, Kevin, but we've had some pretty 'duros hombres' (tough guys) at our school leave his office with tears in their eyes after their last swat hit.

(My girlfriend says the crying is probably more from embarrasment than pain, but she hasn't felt the thing--I think it's probably both.)

Anyway, I admitted I probably deserved the swats. All I was asking is whether the so-called Disciplinary Status--workouts and after-school pickup--were too much, on top of the swats! Overkill! You wouldn't want people to get life in prison for a speeding ticket, would you?! Hope we're still friends!


Trisha Thursday, September 17, 1998, 1:25 AM

Kevin has a very good attitude -- just questioning whether his discipline was too much but not rebelling against it; in fact, he admits the paddling part of it was OK even though six swats with a paddle with holes can bring a 16-year-old to tears! (If that happened to ME, I don't think I would be able to admit it was OK.)

But only Kevin can answer whether the two weeks of Disciplinary Status was necessary. Kevin, you say that you have now given up using chew (which I think is GREAT for you to have decided to do)-- but it is not clear if you decided to do that after getting your paddling OR if those tough early morning workouts and boring afternoon chores ALSO helped you make up your mind.

If you resolved to quit using chew after your spanking, then I AGREE that making you ALSO have to go through the two weeks of Disciplinary Status was OVERKILL.

However, as a practical matter, how could the Dean of Students KNOW that the paddling was sufficient (if it was)? Do you think most boys at your school would quit using chew after just getting swats? Would YOU? Is it maybe your idea that the Dean of Students should try using paddling for a first offence and only give Disciplinary Status (or a paddling plus Disciplinary Status) for a second offence?


Trisha Thursday, September 17, 1998, 1:29 AM

Woops! I obviously meant Kyle everywhere I said Kevin in the post below. (Kevin had made some good points, too.)


Kevin Thursday, September 17, 1998, 4:52 AM

Kyle, after reading your latest comments, I, like Trisha, am impressed, and I want to say I'm sorry if I sounded too strong yesterday.

It's just that I'm on the student court at my school and in the three semesters I've been on it we've only had ONE whole case where the student before us actually said the offense did not occur--and we found her innocent. Everybody else, case after case, people said, yeah, yeah, I did it, but the teacher is unfair, or the rule is too strict or the punishment isn't right. And when that happens so much you just want to say "Look, if you hadn't messed up you wouldn't be here." So, when I read all the complaints about punishment on this forum that came to mind.

If you've given up snuff, that's great! Like Trisha, I wonder--was the paddle by itself enough to get you thinking? (At our school for tobacco the school district would have required a short suspension, and at least with most of the boys counselors they would have given you the butt board too.)

You really got to me, Kyle, with your question about the paddle and "if my butt is as tough as my forum postings," because I don't consider myself all that special and didn't mean to sound so nasty yesterday. Yes, I have taken the paddle with holes (although nowadays at our school the board is a solid one), it was EIGHT swats, and it was horrible. Three of us on the freshman football team in 1985 roughed up this new twerp guy on the team we didn't like. We got paddled, and all three of us "macho" football players (or so we thought!) had tears BEFORE the last swat. And while it wasn't as formal as the workouts you got, each of the three of us for about a week later found ourselves in the last group allowed to go in from practice every afternoon. Most kids had hit the showers, and we were still out on the field running crappy drills. Coach never told us why we were still out there every day, but we knew. So, no, I'm not all that tough--I hated the whole thing. But that was three years ago--I haven't gotten into any more trouble.

Now--wanna hear something funny? That twerp kid we beat up has now been dating my sister for more than two years now, and he's kind of a good dude after all! What's more interesting is that he got caught with firecrackers last Spring. At our school that normally means suspension, but he wants to get into a good college and didn't want to mess up his transcript. So he brought his case to our court. He's close to our family, so I kept out of it, but the rest of the court was SO impressed with how responsible he was and how he admitted everything that they reccomended waiving the suspension and gave him VPR ("vice principal referral"), which for boys at our school is a fancy way of saying HE got swats too. Even without the holes, he--like you and I, Kyle--said it wasn't no fun! Anyway, misery loves company, and I kind of admired this guy for admitting everything and being so responsible. My sister says I'd better admire him because he might be my bro-in-law some day!

Yes, Kyle, we are still friends as far as I am concerned. Stay out of trouble, Dude


Kevin Thursday, September 17, 1998, 4:55 AM

Oops, fat fingers! We were on the freshman football team in 1995, not 1985. You't think we were REAL old or something!


Lori Thursday, September 17, 1998, 8:23 AM

All this talk about spanking. I've never seen it in school in the several I've gone to near Omaha, Neb.

A couple of you mention Texas--it must be more common in the South, though my boyfriend said he got punished with the paddle once as a freshman in Idaho.

Do girls get spanked too? Why do you talk about holes in the paddle--is that supposed to hurt more or something?


Jason M. Friday, September 18, 1998, 5:14 AM

Lori: I live in Nebraska, too, in Lincoln. My Dad has lived in several states and says that school spanking is illegal in Nebraska and about half the states, which I guess is why we don't see it here. He says that in the states where they do have it, it's not usually used after 9th grade, except in the South. That's why these guys got it in Texas, I guess.

Don't know if they spank girls much.

Also don't know about the holes. You'd think if that took some of the weight from the paddle and made it lighter, it wouldn't hurt as bad, but maybe not. --- Jason


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Saturday, September 19, 1998, 11:55 PM

Gosh, all these questions. I'll try to anser them, then if anybody else wants something they can email so my busting for chew doesn't become the only subject on this forum.

Trisha I'll answer your question honestly but I know what you'll say. After I got caught and paddled for chew I was humilated and hurting and thought this isnt worth it so I won't chew at school again. But i still had two cans of the stuff at home. For some reasons as the two weeks of crap disciplinary status wore on i just said all this stuff does is get me in trouble im not gonna chew at all, and i threw my cans away. One of the other guys who got caught with me also says hes given it up after the disciplinary workouts but the third dude still chews though not on campus. So youll probably say see the paddle wasnt enough by itself but thats my anser. The disciplinary status thing came up at student council this week and the Dean of Boys told them it has worked well at other schools but that he will not stop using the spanking paddle as long as hes dean, so i guess were gonna have both.

Kevin: well at least i didnt get suspended here like they do at your school for tobacco. You and your court sound pretty serious but at least if you had to take the paddle yourself you know its not easy. Eight with the holes and now the guy you beat up is gonna be your brother in law? God.

Jason: They don't use the paddle on girls at our school but they say it isnt illegal in Tex. They just dont do it here. Girls get more detention and special assinments etc. And Jason if you think the holes make it hurt LESS, come down to Texas and I'll have the Dean show you youre WRONG! Don't know why but they hurt. OK bye.


Trisha Sunday, September 20, 1998, 9:03 AM

Thanks Kyle. Yes, you answered your own question about whether the 'crap disciplinary status' was necessary. I'm impressed that you answered so HONESTLY because it wasnt the answer you were expecting. But its so much better that you went through being hurt, humiliated, tired, sore and bored NOW than suffer MUCH worse later from cancer of the mouth. And you can't really blame your Dean of Boys for realizing that it can take strong discipline (BOTH workouts/trash pickups AND the spanking paddle) for an adult to get teens to do what we should do on our own anyway, like not support the cancerus tobacco industry.

Yes Jason, paddles with holes hurt worse. My boyfriend goes to a different school where he got 2 spankings as a sophmore, one was 6 swats on his gym shorts in gym class with a regular paddle and it hurt a couple hours and the other was 4 swats on his jeans from the v-p with a paddle with holes and he said it hurts much worse almost ALL DAY.

Lori, yes, girls too are spanked in school. That wasn't true when my sister was here but at the school assembly at the start of my sophomore year the principal announced that the school districts atorney ruled that it wasnt legal (it was _s_e_x_ discrimination) to spank boys and not girls. We were pretty upset about it at first and some of the parents tried to get the school board to change their mind about it or just abolish paddling but they wouldnt. Now it's pretty well accepted. You don't have to take it however but if you don't you get suspended instead (for the same number of days as the swats, so a week's out-of-school suspension to avoid the maximum 5 swats). As you can guess, few parents allow students to miss school that long and get all those zeroes (especially if you want to go to college).

Now let's maybe change the subject back to school discipline in GENERAL rather than just the paddle == so Kevin, let's hear more about your student court. I'm on the student council and someone said they;d heard of that at other schools. Exactly how does it work? It sounds like it's only if the students appeal what the school has already decided to do, or what? What rules have most kids broker who come before your court and what are the different consequences you can decide on?


Kevin Monday, September 21, 1998, 12:27 PM

Trisha: what state are you in? Like Kyle's Texas school they don't use the paddle on girls here but they say it is legal to do so if they want. Guess they've never heard of that attorney general thing here, yet.

Our court does not handle narcotic drugs, possession of weapons or felonious assault. All of those are grounds for expulsion, and referral to police too. If a kid denies that, the principal, school board or public court decides if there is responsibility (guilt).

For everything else we can hear it- either as an appeal if the kid says he or she didn't do it (rare) or if the kid wants the punishment the school or the teacher has imposed to be lessened. What our powers are gets kinda complicated. If it is a tobacco suspension and the kid is guilty, we can either uphold it or recommend dropping it as low as three days (1 day at home and 2 days inschool suspension), but they have to get at least some suspension. If it is any other kind of suspension, we can recommend substituting Vice Principal Referral or detention, or lesser suspension, but the principal can overrule us (never does, though). What's Vice Principal Referral? If we recommend it for a boy, unless he is disabled he will ALWAYS get hefty swats (no more holes in our vice principal's paddle, though), and if a girl she will get a lot of Saturday detention and other work. (We just say VPR, though, and the boys or girls vice principal decides how many swats or how much extra work for the girl. We don't say how much.)

If the teacher or administration has set some lesser penalty, such as detention or VPR, we can modify it if we feel it is too strict or harsh. Sometimes we reduce detentions because we find them too harsh, but often, frankly, we give VPR to a guy not because he's any less guilty but because most students, and at our school this is more true of boys than girls, have after-school jobs or sports and appeal their detentions because they have no time to do them. This part isn't really justice--it's just reality for guys with jobs! And if a sports player missed practices for detentions, the coach would get him worse!

In general Trisha, it is correct to say we get involved mainly in appeals to punishments, because frankly as I said last week the school very seldom accuses a totally innocent person of doing something. It's usually just a case of "hey, that's too strong for what I did." And most students who bring their cases to us think like Kyle did--that we're a bunch of hard-butt jerks. We're not, though! They just messed up!

Trisha your boyfriend is right about the paddle with holes, and Jason, buddy, you are very, very wrong! Even without the holes now, though, our boys vice principal is still rumored to have a very unpleasant paddle.


Jason M. Tuesday, September 22, 1998, 3:32 PM

All right, already! Kyle and Kevin and Trisha's boyfriend: I believe you that the holes make the paddle hurt! I'm S-O-R-R-Y! My Dad who was a physics major in college just laughed when I told him this, and said the holes hurt more because they allow air to go through rather than slowing the board down before it hits your butt. I'm glad he explained it so I don't have to accept Kyle's "kind" invitation to come to Texas and find out for myself first-hand. or first-butt. As for the paddle in school, since we don't have it in Nebraska I'm not sure how I feel about it, but I am not as anti-spanking as Aiden is in this Teenworld page. --Jason


Trisha Tuesday, September 22, 1998, 6:24 PM

Thanks Kevin for ALL the information. Our principal has said he will consider forming a student court IF the student council gives him a detailed proposal, so I've got more questions. The student council meets to discuss it later this week so we may have even more questions later. Hope you dont mind!

What is the purpose of the student court? If ALL you do is lessen the discipline that teachers or administrators have imposed then wouldnt our principal be admitting that the school's discipline is too harsh (I don't think it is, by the way) if he forms something that always or often lessens it?

What are the procedures for a studnet whose messed up to bring his or her case to you? Like if a guy has gotten suspension and a VCR (woops, Im sure he WISHES! I mean a VPR) for smoking --you said that most of the boys counselors give BOTH suspension and swats for smoking -- then obviously the punishment is delayed (automatically?) if he tells his counselor he wants to appeal to you. But how do you find out about his appeal? Do you just have regular meeting times and anyone can show up?

What are your procedures for deciding? Do you follow any guidelines or do you just let student athletes or students with jobs get VPR/swats if they want them instead or detention or suspension?

Does the student get to listen to you debate his case and punishment or does he present his case and then you make your recommendation to the principal and the student only finds out what you recommended when he gets a slip to report to the vice principal or for suspension?

And-- does it WORK? Do you know if the student court has worked BETTER than just letting the teachers and administrators decide? Thanks for answering.

To answer your question, my school is in Tennessee. You might have misunderstood me about the _s_e_x_ discrimination law, it was only our school district's atorney who ruled, not the atorney general for the whole state. I'm sure because I have friends and cousins in other cities and in a couple of the other high schools girls aren't spanked. What state is your school in? There was another Kevin on the board a few weeks before you and like Kyle (hi Kyle) he was from Texas but he graduated last year.


Kevin Tuesday, September 22, 1998, 8:05 PM

Trisha: they tell me the student court came out of a senior civics project several years ago and is aimed at getting the kids involved in the process without taking too much power away from the administration. We have had a court ever since I got here.

And you are right, I did misread your item about school district attorney, not attorney genl.

We don't lessen punishments on many occasions. If anything, we're accused of backing up the teachers, counselors and admin. In fact, I was kind of surprised that my sisters boyfriend--my old enemy--talked his way down to a VPR from a suspension for firecrackers. But he was very sincere, took responsibility, and made it clear he had learned. We talk a lot about taking responsibility.

While we DON'T actually LESSEN many punishments, especially suspensions, it IS fairly common for us to grant VPR to people who get a lot of after school detentions, if they ask. It's not just that we do it for jocks or guys with jobs, but they happen to be the ones who ask. Besides, since they don't paddle girls here, if a girl asked, her VPR will usually be Saturday detentions and work assignments which isn't gonna be much easier than the after-school ones she's getting out of! Anyway, most teachers and counselors know we'll grant the VPRs, so more and more this year they are usually offering the kid VPR or detention in the first place, and we don't get involved as much any more. An exception is three lady English teachers who object to the paddle as cruel and won't give VPR, and therefore force guys to come to us if they really want it!

Procedure: a teacher or counselor will write a student up. If it is a suspension, it takes effect on the second morning after the writeup. If it is VPR they are supposed to see the vice-principal by 4:00 the same day. If it is detentions, it starts the following afternoon. The student THEN has until the end of the school day (or noon the next day if it's after 3:00) to go to the office and sign a request to see the court. Then the office gets us the members together. It's supposedly to be very quick--same day if poss.-- but usually the punishment is suspended a couple of days while they get us to meet. Still it's fast enough so people really can't use us for delay.

Example: last Thursday a guy got caught with cigarettes and his counselor wrote him up for three days at home, two days on in-school susp., and VPR. He filed the request that day, and we met with him today (Monday). We tried to call him at home but couldn't find him, so he'll find out tomorrow morning that we found no "extenuating" items. He'll have to take his VPR tomorrow, and his suspension will start Wednesday morning. I really shouldn't be telling you this before we tell him, but you don't know him and this late at night I don't think he'll stumble on this forum. If you do, guy, go get the sealed note in your locker!

Does the court work? I think it gives a few students--those on the court and the bad ones who screw up--a perspective they wouldn't have, but really there could be a good-enough discipline system without it. A nearby h. s. doesn't have it and doesn't seem to have any more or less discplinary problems. It's a lot of effort, so if we didn't already have it I don't think I'd be pushing it.

I'm going to Washington and New York for a leadership conference and trip, and will be off line for much of the next three weeks, and my dad is supposedly installing a new computer while I'm gone. So I hope this answers many of your questions. I tried!

--Kevin (you're right--NOT the OLD Kevin from low on the list)


Jeremy Wednesday, September 23, 1998, 6:17 PM

To Jason, my physics teacher says your explanation is only partly true. It is correct that the holes speed up the paddle somewhat by cutting down the air resistance but the real difference comes at the point of contact. Instead of their being an air cushion when the paddle lands the holes let the air escape at the last moment, making for a much more firm connection between the paddle and your seat! THAT'S why paddles with holes makes such a bigger impression. It made a BIG impression on me in the 9th grade and I haven't even gotten a detention since! (My school is in Oklahoma.)


Ryan Thursday, September 24, 1998, 3:37 PM

Kevin, I know you won't be answering this until you get back, but isn't it kind of embarassing for a guy to know that some girls (I assume there aren't just boys on your student court) have voted for him to be paddled? Gosh, it's bad enough that the girl or girls who are working in the office when you see the principal know that you are getting paddled without having to think that some of the girls you see in the hallway or your class have actually VOTED to endorse the teacher's or counselor's decision to have you receive a paddling.


James S. Thursday, September 24, 1998, 6:50 PM

Ryan: There is a student court at my school (in Alabama) and it is mostly like Kevin's in how it is run. We have both boys and girls on the student court. We have in- school suspension, out-of-school suspension, detention after school and spankings as the main forms of discipline and it is equal treatment for both boys and girls. Because everything is done on an equal basis there is not a lot of embarassment involved in knowing that students from the opposite _s_e_x_ are helping to determine your discipline because it happens to everyone on an equal basis.


Lori Thursday, September 24, 1998, 8:02 PM

Ryan: I'm here in Nebraska tonight. I'm referring to your posting to Kevin, but as you saw Kevin is going to be gone for awhile. James S. has already responded from Alabama. We don't have spanking for either boys or girls in Nebraska, but my boyfriend, who is working on the computer here with me tonight, did get the paddle when he was a freshman in Idaho.

He's read over the postings and thinks you may be overrating the embarrassment among girls. He said yes, it was embarrassing to walk past girls in the office after the licks, but it was probably even more embarrassing to have to take his pants off and change clothes in gym class in the boys locker room half an hour later. He said if the court at Kevin's school really does refer matters to the vice principal and not specify the number of swats, etc., the girls on the court probably see it as a disciplinary referral and not an emotional thing (even though a referral to the v-p probably is going to mean the paddle). And if I, Lori, were on the court and the guys were ASKING me to approve the referral so they wouldn't have to do their detentions and lose their after- school jobs, I wouldn't see it as all that embarrassing.

Ryan, you (or somebody named Ryan) wrote on the forum about taking swats from a female last spring. Was that any more embarrasing than taking them from a guy teacher?

--Lori and Casey


Dave Tuesday, September 29, 1998, 12:09 PM

Answering Kyle's question: Is school paddling a violation of human rights? Hell no. Every day hundreds of millions of people suffer terribly at the hands of bad governments, conflicting armies, forces of nature, and violent bullies and criminals. Let's face it, on the misery index, a tanned butt ranks pretty low. The fact that the licks are dished out for the offender's and his colleagues own good, is a bonus.

Look, my sport is rugby: the originating sport of American football. It is a rough sport and the only protection is a mouthguard, shirt, shorts and soft jock strap. We often leave the pitch with abrasions of every shape on every part of our bodies, including, especially including, our bums. It doesn't worry us until later when the sting really sets in. I've had several welts and abrasions on my legs and buttocks that if my school or father delivered them, they would be hauled off as war criminals-not to mention the law suits.

It is not unusual for a captain to get his player's mind focused back onto the game with a good slap on the dozing player's butt. I do it myself if I see a fellow player loosing it. It's my ass as well as his in the game-anyway, we are there to win so our hides are going to get hurt no matter what we do. And to be honest, a well connected smack on the back of my shorts has driven me to push harder, causing me to willingly chance more injury from the rigours of the game. But then, as they say, go hard or go home.

I know this sounds strange-and anywhere else he would get decked-but I think the occasional wack helps the captain, our age, to become our leader (or temporary dad?). There is only thin cloth between his hand and a hard ass, so the slap is smarting for both. It's kind of a bonding moment I know, but it works to motivate members of a team to get off their ass and get it into the rough and tumble of the game, and to win for the team. I think when you need to motivate guys to work that hard and chance getting hurt, you play the dad card as much as you can.

So, is the captain violating my human rights? If so how much should I sue him for? Should other players sue me because I initiated a bonding moment in a time honoured fashion? Should we all sue each other for hurting each other in the game?

Sure I'm talking love taps here and not a series of heafy swats with the butt board. Yet there is something here in what Kevin and Kyle were saying. Kyle said that most boys in rural Texas are use to getting their ass beat at school. Why in rural Texas? Obviously they are not being trained up for a desk job (who in Texas is?). They come from a rough and tumble life. This produces people like Kyle who-when it is warranted and he is ordered to-respectfully bends over to receive 5 wacks across his buttocks with a spanking paddle. One that he knows, only too well, is engineered with holes in it to sting his butt like hell.

We're not talking about a quick trip to the canoe shed here. These are government issued paddles, made of hard wood and engineered for striking your buttocks at maximum speed on a relatively large area of your skin. These are designed so that one good wack definitely gets your attention-big time!!

And this is not like 5 x 1 wack= 5 wacks. Its 5 x 1 = 20. For the uninitiated, let me explain what's going on here. First smack is fine-it stings both cheeks a lot but that what you've been expecting. You're not there for fun, so the spank should "burn" the skin and it does. It a bit like you've just sat down on a few hornets. At that point you're ready to go home. But the "learning" has just started.

The second smack goes right on top the first, and you get a one-second physics lesson in power of the exponent. Then things start getting serious. As each smack hits your increasingly sensitive butt cheeks-you not only feel the sting of the hard wood spanking you-but then you are forced to think of the next merciless wack of the paddle on an already red and burning bum. So the sting builds up and it takes a lot of guts for you to just stay there in place and get it over with. You'd give anything for a few seconds of cooling off. But you don't plea, bargain or cry off. You just voluntarily keep your sore bum in direct line of fire of the paddle, tighten your eyes and take the remaining swats of your punishment. You know your end of the grim bargain and you regrettably stick by it. Am I right on this Kyle and Kevin?

One other question for you Kyle. Do you feel any braver? You said the paddle burned your butt like crazy and yet you stayed the course. Besides helping to straighten your behaviour out a little, do you think it put you in a better form to enjoy the rough and tumble that your rural life offers?

Kevin, was your football coach shedding tears as your butt was getting sorely smacked? Or do you think a side of him was grateful that three of his players got their asses toughened up a little-for the field and for leadership. Do you agree with where I'm going here? Help out, please.

I know that some people (my girlfriend for one) feel that can make guys too tough to be sensitive. But who said that you can't be both?

Three grown jocks crying and rubbing the seat of their Levis after a full blown spanking could be seen as a moment of sensitivity, even if it is because their butts feel on fire. And they don't necessarily become little Hitlers the next day. In fact they may be more sensitive to other people's pains because they have had a few of their own. It depends on the person.

Sure there are jerks and wacking the seat of their pants may well encourage them, but I think they would be jerks anyway and a few hearty spanks with a paddle may even bring some of them into line.

If you've seen the movie "Saving Private Ryan" you must have asked yourself whether you would have the bottle to do what they did. That is real and that is what anybody at any age may have to face in both war and peace (crime, cancer, and car accidents are just three things that ravages the body as much as any war). I bet those guys leaving the barges into enemy fire didn't complain that their dad or their school teachers or their coaches or their team captains violated their human rights by smacking their butts red. Do you think you will when you face tougher times?

Dave


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Tuesday, September 29, 1998, 1:57 PM

Gosh, Dave. 15 paragraphs, and you sent them twice! Maybe we ought not to overdo it on this forum. I almost feel guilty that I started all this, especially since it was the discplinary status workouts and stuff that I originally griped about, not really the paddle. (Since you're a rugby jock you probably think the workouts are good too, but spare us the 15 paragraphs!)

It was six swats, by the way, not five. I got caught, I got in trouble--yes they sting more as it goes on--and I finally gave up chew. Not sure if that makes me a better athlete or if I would be any tougher if I had to go to battle like Private Ryan. Hope you or me or my friends don't ever have to go to war. See, I made it in two paragraphs. -- Kyle


Ryan from Texas Tuesday, September 29, 1998, 5:46 AM

Lori, yes, it is much more embarrassing to be paddled by a female teacher. The lady who paddled me back in May is in her mid-thirties and she sure knows how to swing a paddle. It was an unpleasant experience, believe me.


Dave Tuesday, September 29, 1998, 6:29 AM

Ya, Kyle, it really was long-winded. Also, the second posting is a clean-up of the first (lower) posting. Can someone zap that one, please? Taking your lead on brevity: no, the paddling did not violate your human rights because I believe it is totally compatible with a rough and tumble way of life that you are use to in rural Texas. There, one sentence!

Thanks for answering my questions, but I now realise they were confusing. Simply put: do you agree that it took guts for you to face the music as you did, and despite the intensifying sting, to have stuck with it to the end? Also, did you get anything from that-ie do you think having submitted to that ordeal helps you now make tougher choices, and stay committed to those choices?

You're right, Kyle, my thumb is up on the work-outs. I agreed with you at first but then you convinced me that they really did some good. The six wacks on your butt got your attention and got you to respect school decorum, but I think the push-ups and stuff got you to respect your health. It was a package deal, and it seems to work.

Thanks for wishing me out of war-same to you dud! Sorry for missing the last swot.

Dave


Scott Collins Tuesday, September 29, 1998, 9:22 AM

Hey, everybody, I've got a question about smoking in school. And tobacco in general. While several comments here, including Kyle's, got me thinking about this, my question is beyond just Kyle. Maybe if we talk about tobacco for awhile it will get us off the subject of poor Kyle's butt. More has been written about it than any tush since they caned that American kid Michael Fay's rear end for spray painting cars in Singapore, and poor Kyle sounds like he's getting kind of embarrassed.

Anyway, about tobacco. There are all sorts of comments here about strict punishments for smoking (or, for Kyle, chewing). He got swats and workouts and cleanup duty, one girl got Saturday detention, and at other schools it looks like you have to be escorted to the bathroom if you get caught smoking in one, and in others they won't let you go (now THAT is cruel!). At Kevin's school he says there's mandatory suspension, plus apparently most guys get licks too. And at my school, while I don't smoke, I think it's TERRIBLE. They suspend you for two days at home, then three more days in-school suspension, and then you're on "the list" for three weeks (which means most guys have crappy workouts every morning, and girls, plus disabled guys, have trash duty eveery morning). So if you get caught with one cigarette at my school--EVEN IF YOU'RE 18!--it messes you up BAD for almost a whole month!

So here's my question--are all schools as strict about tobacco as those that we've read about here? Should they be? Are most punishments like those here? (licks and swats are mainly in the south U. S.; what is it other places, mainly detention and bathroom restrictions in the North and in Europe and Asia?)

Even though I don't smoke I wonder if schools haven't gone batty over all this political stuff on smoking. A few students who are 18 can legally smoke away from school, and everybody else is pretty close to that age.

My brother is 6 years older than me and says that they didn't used to be NEARLY AS STRICT on smoking at our school. He said they used to have a smoking lounge where it was OK, and while it wasn't OK in the bathrooms, they usually just made you put it out and leave the restroom if you got caught. Only for repeaters, he said, did they do anything--licks for guys and a couple hours detention for girls. (That was the only time my bro ever got licks.) They used to have no suspension at all for smoking. Now, at the same school, it messes you up for a month--you'd think it's a capital crime!

So, what's everybody think? How should schools treat smoking and chewing?


Alan Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 1:32 PM

Well Scott if a sore butt, or whatever is the price to pay for avoiding lung cancer in ten or twenty years, thats not a bad deal. I'm not sure why in some schools only boys are paddled, shouldn't girls at least get a choice?


Jason M. Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 2:09 PM

Scott:

This is Jason in Lincoln. At my school it's at least a bunch of detentions if you smoke or chew at school, and depending on your record you can get in-school or total suspensions. I think tobacco is stupid, so I have no problem with them enforcing the rules. Even the teachers can't smoke at school now, but they don't get detentions! I can't wait to see how Trisha answers this question, since she wrote about the cancerous tobacco industry last week! -- Jason


Lisa T. Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 2:21 PM

At my school in southern Kansas they will suspend you if you smoke, Scott. I don't smoke but I think that since you are only harming yourself they shouldn't do this. If you're outside, at least, you're not hurting anybody else with the smoke, and what you do with your body should be your own business, as long as you know in advance it might be risky.


Roger Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 3:42 PM

This paddling business is unbelievable in the 1990's. Is it really painful or just basically embarassing? Does it leave bruises. This sounds like a primative country.


Casey. near Omaha Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 4:06 PM

This is Casey in Nebraska. My girlfriend, Lori, tried last week to get me to post this about my ninth grade year in Idaho and I chickened out. But when Collins brought up smoking and tobacco in school today, I finally agreed.

When I was a freshman I was caught smoking, and while the punishment involved paddling, that wasn't the important part. IT ALSO INVOLVED A CARING AND CREATIVE COUNSELOR, a guy I will admire as long as I live.

This was a Mormon town, and Mormons don't like tobacco at all. The boys' counselor's stated sentence for a guy caught smoking at school was eight swats with a paddle, BUT. . . after three of the nastiest things you can imagine, he paused and gave you an option to suspend the other five if you read a bunch of literature and then had three follow-up conferences with him, one two days later, one in a week and one in a month. There was no way anyone wanted to go past three of those killer swats, so everybody took the option.

Well, for the first few hours, it was typical pain and embarrassment--walking past the girls and the secretaries outside his office who knew you'd been spanked, then having to show your butt to other guys when you dreseed for gym and showered afterwards, and wondering when the hurting would stop. But then, that night, starting to read all the literature, well. . .everything started to change. Sure, there were the scary pamphlets from the Lung Association and the Cancer Society. But there were other things too--like an article from the school paper about the captain of the girls' basketball team saying smokers were losers, and a sports magazine story about some Big Ten track star almost losing his athletic scholarship because he took up smoking one summer and lost his wind. What really got my attention, though, was an article from a young women's fashion magazine about some model who dumped her boyfriend because he started smoking, smelled so awful, and open-mouth kisses tasted so bad!

This was pretty strong stuff for a Mormon town, but it sure made a big impression- -at least as big as that terrible paddle had--on a young teen kid feeling his oats and thinking about love conquests! (I HADN'T MET LORI YET!!!) Anyway, what I read that night made it clear that despite what the ads say, smoking isn't cool. The paddle was a shock, but the reading material really did the trick.

When I went in for counseling, I was totally blown away. I was expecting to get yelled at. Sure, he made it clear that if I smoked at school again my butt was going to be a Presidential disaster area. But he really didn't yell, and he convinced me that he really, truly hoped I would NOT smoke again so he wouldn't have to do that. This guy was real sincere, and he cared. He asked if I already had a nicotine addiction and needed help with a patch or something (no). He told me about his days in college sports at BYU, about how he dated and married a Utah volleyball star and beauty queen, how neither one had ever smoked, how happy and healthy they were, and what great kids and grandkids they had. And so on. Sure, it was a little corny, but, hey, I never smoked again, and now I get annoyed at kids who do.

The guy has retired now, and I don't know if the new boys counselor there does this, since we've moved away. The girls counselor at the time had a version of this (but I never heard of a girl getting spanked at that school). I think that lady still works there, so maybe they still have it.

I'm not saying all schools should do this. At really big schools, the counselors won't have time. I've talked to my cousnelor here in Nebraska, and he basically isn't interested, partly since this treatment involved swats and they don't use them here.

But I do know that those I know who went through the counseling didn't smoke again. Sure, I'm sure somebody back there smoked again later, but on one part there probably weren't any exceptions: I doubt if anybody ever rejected the option of reading and counseling after the first three swats and stayed bent over for five more. That would have been physically impossible! -- Casey


Lori Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 4:12 PM

As you can see by the posting below, I convinced my boyfriend to answer Scott Collins' question about smoking based on Casey's freshman year in Idaho. I didn't ask him to put in the part about love conquests, though! Anyway, I've never smoked, and Casey obviously doesn't any more, but here at our school in Nebraska they suspend some kids who are caught. It doesn't really work very well for those who don't like school and don't miss it and whose parents don't care. I don't know what is the right way to punish it, Scott. I do think tobacco is real bad, but I also know in Virginia and Carolina there are a lot of farmers who would go broke if they made them stop growing it. Maybe the government can find some aid program. -- Bye for now from Lori


Chris Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 6:02 AM

Scott, I've never been caught for smoking. But when I was 13, my best friend and I were waiting outside the office, because we skipped a day of school, and got to talking with two older guys ahead of us who had been caught smoking. Because truancy at the school is rare and a serious offence, we all expected the smokers to get lighter punishments than us truants.

A few minutes after they walked into the office, we were unpleasantly surprised to hear a loud smack. We couldn't belief it when we heard 9 more wacks and ouches. 5 spanks each and they then walked out looking very sore and holding their bums. That made us really scared as we expected to get more. While 5 licks doesn't sound like much, we didn't have jeans on: I wore flannels without even a hip pocket on one side. With a straight back we had to bend right over a table stretching the flannel to no thickness at all and making our butts huge and exposed. If a fly had landed on my tosh right then I would have easily felt its feet-and it won't have taken a sharpshooter to lay a sting on those massive targets. Then ONLY 2 swots, each of which really stung, but it was over before the burn set in. The next and last time I ever had to bend over that table was two years later, and yes, I got the 5 really hefty wacks and this time my butt was burning something wicked well before the hiding was over. But that was for fighting in a classroom (we just left the room trashed after the fight, which was stupid). So smoking got 5 licks compared to 2 for truancy (though younger) and 5 for the messy fight. Kevin, would our sorry butts been in kinder hands with your court?

Roger, sorry buddy but you're wrong. I learned loads from those licks, and nothing could substitute them. I don't smoke now, not because I'm scared, but because those smacks taught me respect for my school and for myself. That's not all. I haven't skipped a day of school since then, despite the day we took off was the best day of my life. We planned it perfectly, but our note, that we passed in class, was later found in a desk. We knew we were taking a chance but it was a one off and for that we were ready to have our butts risk a hiding (unfortunately, we didn't let our butts vote on the matter). I don't regret anything, I would do it over again (minus the note!). Listen, we were cheeky kids and we had a right to be a little mischievous, but we also know that crossing the line comes at a cost. A sore butt is quick and fair. 2 nasty licks was a bargain, 5-6 would have been a high price but still worth the adventure. Also, later when I was caught fighting, the other guy took all the blame as he started the fight. That may have increased his whooping and probably eliminate mine. When he did this Jesus Christ thing, words just left my mouth that I couldn't stop and never thought could be there. Those words: "no sir, we are BOTH responsible" earned me a big red, stinging butt for the day. Sure, I could have just said: "thanks dud" and let him talk my way out of the hiding, but that option didn't really cross my mind.

Doing a "Private Ryan"? Well this brave guy definitely did that for me, and for some inexplicable reason, his courage caused me to do something totally against my self interest (my butt was not pleased and had a nasty way of protesting). Also, before that, I was mildly prejudiced against his ethnic background, which my parents had sternly tried to discourage, but when he literally put his butt even more in the line of fire to save mine, that bigotry melted away for good. Sorry, but no amount of detention or stern words from Dad would have generated in me that respect for him and for people of his and other backgrounds.

I've never said any of this to anyone before; but Roger, you got me when you said that school paddling means that America is primitive. Each time my butt got tanned, the smacks had been 100% effective and taught me loads of respect that I would not have learned otherwise. Is that primitive? Sure its embarrassing walking around school with a bum that has just been soundly spanked, especially with guys looking at your naked butt (I hope this is just curiosity!!). Some SOB's even try adding a little to the sting and embarrassment. But I guess that's life.--Chris.


Scott Collins Wednesday, September 30, 1998, 9:50 AM

Hey everybody, I dropped by the computer lab during study period to check the responses to my post about smoking and saw all the replies. Thanks! Keep 'em comming, particularly if you live outside of the U. S. Are they as strict about tobacco in other countries?

Well, four of us got sent to the office this morning, though this has nothing to do with smoking. My best friend and I, and another friend and his girlfriend sat in the back of algebra class and made fun of a particularly lousy substitute teacher who hadn't even bothered to look to see what formulas our teacher had gone over yesterday. We kept talking and laughing and finally she came back and saw in our notebooks that we hadn't been taking any notes but instead were drawing pictures of a fat and ugly substitute at the blackboard. She said, "what's it gonna take to settle you down?" and our one friend said "for starters, you could lose some weight and comb your hair." We couldn't help smiling, she slammed her book, wrote up a slip and sent us down.

The four of us got "The List" for a week, from tomorrow through next Wednesday. I've had it before and I'll live, and my best friend is on it a lot. But two things piss me off. First, my big bro will be back in town this weekend, and Saturday morning instead of fishing with him or something I'm gonna have to be at school. Second, the guy who actually said "lose some weight" to the lady has a broken wrist, so he gets out of the early morning workouts while on The List and instead gets to do trash detail with his girlfriend. Oh well.

Back to smoking: It sure looks like my school isn't the only one that's tough on tobacco, but keep your responses coming, from everywhere but particularly outside America.

Wish me luck while on The LIst. ::From Scott the Little Criminal


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Thursday, October 01, 1998, 12:25 PM

Hi Scott, thanks for broading the subject beyond my own chew bust. Yes I was gettin a little selfconsciuos about my case, and it has been interesting to see so many schools are strict and many suspend kids.

As for you and your Algebra class, you've gotta be nicer to fat people, Dude! Even though I think you were rude to her and should have gotten in trouble, your "List" sounds like our Discplinary Status and I do NOT envy you. Oooohhh! Hope you like sprinting and running the stairs and those sqwat thrust things, Guy. One thing about it now that its over: I do pushups with my Dad every morning and he cant believe how many more I'm doing after I had the two weeks of that crap. We have a p. e. fitness test in school in October and Im gonna kick butt on it. Good luck. From Kyle


Jesse Thursday, October 01, 1998, 1:17 PM

Malaysian Students, please come and join in this discussion.

Scott, I learned about Teenworld International from Zahari, a foreign exchange student from Malaysia who is at my high school this year. This entire site is based in Malaysia even though almost everyone on the Teachers Forum is from the U. S.A. A few days ago I asked Zahari how smoking is handled in Malaysia, and now that you have asked I will tell you what I discovered. You may be amazed.

I asked him whether Malaysian schools have smoking lounges like your brother used to have, figuring that with all the opium dens shown in old movies about Asia smoking there would be pretty popular. He was shocked at my question. He said that last year the Ministry of Education required ALL schools to cane ALL students who smoke! (And some of you think the paddle is bad!)

We got on the Internet to try to find some detailed information about the rules. It took some time, but here is what we found in the BERITA listserv archives:

----

THE CANE FOR YOUNG SMOKERS The Star, 14 May 1997

KUALA LUMPUR: Student who smoke will face compulsory caning and those caught puffing four times will be expelled under the Education Ministry's latest anti-smoking rules.

Education Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak who announced this yesterday said the stringent rules were to curb indiscipline and social ills among students.

"Smoking leads students to many other evils yet there are students who think that smoking makes them look sophisticated and glamorous.

"The ministry has always been against smoking but now we have to get serious," he said when launching the national-level No Smoking For Teenagers campaign held at a hotel here yesterday.

The campaign, which will be launched in all states, is a Jaycees Malaysia-Education Ministry project with RM1.25 million funding provided by the Confederation of Malaysian Tobacco Manufacturers (CMTM). An advertising campaign in The Star will also follow.

Under the new rules effective immediately, a student caught smoking for the first time will be warned and caned once. If the offence is repeated, the student will be caned twice and given another warning.

A third-time offender will be suspended up to a maximum of 14 days. Those caught smoking for the fourth time will be expelled.

There are now no guidelines for schools to punish students caught smoking.

Najib, a non-smoker, urged parents to support the rules. He said the punishment would also apply to students caught smoking outside school.

"Schools will not easily give in to appeals by parents to reinstate their expelled children."

Najib said caning would be done by headmasters or disciplinary teachers.

In January, the Health Ministry extended its smoking ban in public areas to nurseries, kindergartens, schools and institutions of higher learning.

It also banned those under 18 from smoking, having cigarettes and chewing tobacco.

Najib also warned teachers not to smoke in schools.

----

We did some further looking and according to the Bernama News Service for Malaysian Students, 8/8/97, in less than the first three months under the new rules 9,348 students were caned and some had to change their schools or were expelled.

So, Scott, it's NOT just American schools who are cracking down on teen-age smoking. Other countries realize that smoking is bad for your lungs -- and your butt!


Roger Thursday, October 01, 1998, 4:01 PM

As if paddling is not bad enough, what is caning like?


Ron Thursday, October 01, 1998, 4:04 PM

Could someone please help me out here? My coriosity is killing me. I've never been to a school that paddles so I've never thought about it. But when the subject first came up a month or so ago, I thought that if I knew I was getting paddled, I would think of getting hold of a new pair of jeans, thick underwear and perhaps a few other things to cushion the blows. In other words, I'd be tempted to cheat or at least get as much padding as the VP allows. What stops this? What are you allowed and what do you try to get away with? Kyle, I can see that you don't want to become a poster child of the paddle manufacturers, but you are the closest at hand to answer this.


Galen 110444.120@compuserve. com Thursday, October 01, 1998, 5:15 PM

Scott I'm sorry you got the List for acting up in front of that substitute. Some substitutes can be real bad. But from her point of view you can see why she needs the kids to cooperate, so I guess I would have sent you to the office too. At least your punishment doesn't involve someone hitting you like so many kids wrote about here, but it isnt going to be a fun week for you. Not at all. Good luck with it.


Jeff Thursday, October 01, 1998, 8:22 PM

Sorry to disappoint all you sensitive people, and no offense to you Galen. But I'd much rather take the paddle than do what Scott's gotta do. It would be done in 2 minutes and he wouldn't even feel it the next morning. This way he'll still be sweatting it out next week, and that sucks. (But, sure, you could have been nice to the lady, Scott, and then you wouldn't have to do anything!)


Mike Thursday, October 01, 1998, 7:16 AM

Roger, it STINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just visiting at the request of my bro (I'm 22, he's 15). I got it at a private school 3 times by the headmaster. I also got spanked with a paddle twice by the coach, so I can tell you the difference. The cane can be easier to take. That is because the rattan cane is flexible and thin and does not keep whacking the same big area like a paddle and building up heat. Don't get me wrong, they both burn like the devil and when you stand up they both have your attention!

The coach would bend us over a support, keeping our butts solid, steady and in the air. That also gave him a big area of skin to tan. Each spank of the paddle instantly delivers a large stinging patch to the middle of both cheeks. Each patch goes on top of the previous patch so the burn gets excruciating. The crest of each buttock gets very red, and depending on his roll from one side to the other, he can cover more of the sides. Also, with spankings, clothing DOES MATTER, and our coach had a MAJOR advantage here (just shorts-a-la jock strap-you wouldn't want to get into trouble with your football gear on!).

A caning is NOT a spanking. It puts stinging lines across your butt, some on top of others (ouch!!). Our headmaster (who I'm sure was the type cast for the headmaster in "Dead Poets' Society" which came out just before my sorry butt got a "short, sharp, shock"-you'd think I'd have learned from the movie) would ask us to put our hands on the seat of a really expensive leather armchair, and our feet would be comfortably apart. He was not too fussed about clothing or protruding butt and I'll tell you why. The rattan easily penetrates through trousers, pockets, Calvin Klien and gets right to those millions of nerve endings. We just had to bent over enough to feel humble, but we didn't have to moon him. He only needed enough of a seat so that he can line up the rattan tip (about half an inch thick), half way down the ass (belt to thigh) and between the pockets (ie just below the red tab on a pair of Levis). That is the meaty, sensitive part of the butt and that is the strike zone. The first two canings he just took a line from there across my butt so that the rattan got an equal bite of my left buttock. The last time he "caned my ass", he just concentrated on that inside nasty part of the left cheek. He never said so, but I think that was his Crown Royal (maybe it is just me, but that was the deal clincher: I wasn't going for one of those again!). He usually gave "six of the best" which resulted in bright red lines more or less in parallel, one under the other. After 40 years of tanning tens of thousands of butts, he had a hell of a talent: I don't know what his golf game was like, but look out Tiger Woods!

The reason a caning is different from a paddling is that there is less heaping up of sting until a lick lands on top of another. Each whack gives a narrow sting that just hangs there. But then it quickly gets a close neighbour. Way too close for comfort! Then your butt goes into a sting overload, and you want to get the remaining licks done and over with real quick, before your brain catches up with what is happening to your ass. My headmaster's merciful side was that he fired his wacks in quick succession. BAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAM (my bro's input). You then stand up straight and give a load of "yes sirs" to almost every word he says-you actually feel like saluting him-and then you get your ass to the nearest fire extinguisher as fast as you can get your jacket back on! But nothing else was ever dished out with a caning. That really was enough. My coach had us walk/run laps after a paddling but I think that was just to help get our minds off the sting and/or our burning bums out of a cold shower. Maybe it also taught us to get on with things right after something really bad happens to us, I don't know. He was good, he just told us the number of laps and then we would pick up the pace when we were able to. Some guys would run like the wind, while others were too sore to care about how long it took them to finish. And they probably appreciated the chance to take a long cool shower after everyone else.

If you are still curious Roger, I left the school a few years ago, but considering your previous views on this subject, I'm sure our "primitive" headmaster would be delighted to arrange an open house for you!

Keep your butt out of trouble man! Mike PS Thank you Mike for sharing that hell with us. We now return to our regularly scheduled program. His bro, Steve.


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Thursday, October 01, 1998, 8:15 AM

Ron, our Dean of Boys won't let you cheat on padding. He makes you go to gym, put on shorts and jock instead of your pants or jeans, and come back. Besides the hurt it adds to the embarrassment with all the walking in and out. Before I came to this school I got licks over jeans, but still had to empty the back pockets. Even with jeans it hurts some.

SCOTT HOW DID THE FIRST WORKOUT GO BUDDY?


Scott Collins Friday, October 02, 1998, 10:51 PM

Kyle, its BAD, Dude. They're supposed to be bad, but this was even more. My best friend Greg Johnston and I showed up for our first session today and Coach said "Johnston, this is your third punishment this semseter, do you LIKE it here?" He then worked the crap out of all of us for an hour, and the guys in the group who'd been there all week said today was much worse, all because Coach was pissed at Greg for coming back so much! Greg's pretty guaranteed to get a red belly from the group, and would have today but when we got back to the showers the principal was in there showing the building inspectors around. There's always tomorrow! Even though I'm Greg's friend, if the workout is anything like today, I may join in if I have any energy left! Greg if you are reading this, youve got it coming!

Jeff yes its obvious about better to take licks, but we didnt get choice!

Thanks Jesse for answer on smoking in Malasia! Anybody else have comments on smoking rules?


Jesse Friday, October 02, 1998, 1:55 PM

Scott, you are welcome for the info. Sorry about the workouts. What happens when you are achy tomorrow from this morning's workout and just don't have it in you to work out as hard? What does the coash do when he thinks someone is slacking? At least you have the weekend to rest before starting up again on Mon., don't you? But by Wed., aarghh.

Steve, thanks for getting your older brother to answer Roger's question. (Zahari says Mike's descriptin was very accurate by the way and I'm sure if I showed it to my English teacher she'd give him an A.) Where are you and your brother from? I assume England with the talk about headmasters and spelling neighbor neighbour. Plus I've never heard of caning in an American school. Steve, what does your school do if you are caught smoking?


Roger Friday, October 02, 1998, 6:11 PM

I appreciate Mike's description of the difference between a paddling and a caning. Given the choice of six "of the best" with either a paddle or a cane, what would you choose?


Kirk D. Friday, October 02, 1998, 7:08 PM

Roger, if you are against both paddling and caning, why are you asking which one someone would choose?

Anyway, my question is, don't any schools just give you swats and then let you go on your way? My brother says that's how it was when he was in high school.

You can get Saturday school and nothing else (Kristi), have to clean the bathroom after school and nothing else (Brianne), have to write I WILL NOT SMOKE IN THE GIRLS ROOM about a thousand times (Tina) or The List and nothing else (Scott The Little Criminal).

Everybody who gets swats though also seems to get something else -- Kyle got disciplinary status for two weeks, Kevin has to run crappy drills after football practice for one week and Casey got three conferences with his counsellor over a month and also had a lot of reading to do. Also Mike had to run laps. At my school in Indiana paddling is always combined with in school suspension (three licks and three days ISS for example, always the same number of licks as days).

Is the school's idea that the paddle is applied just to make sure you are paying attention but once they have got your attention what they want you to do is THINK?

About the only guys who don't mention if they had additional punishments are the ones who had been disciplined by a female teacher -- Ryan from Texas who told Lori it is much more embarassing to be paddled by a female teacher and Dustin from Tennessee who wrote that at his Christian school two yeears ago he had his seat warned by a female teacher which was 'absolutely embarassing' and he's tried to stay out of trouble ever since.

TO RYAN FROM TEXAS -- What did you do to earn your paddling last May? (It's OK with Kyle for you to share the limelite with him for a while.) Did you get any other punishment too? Is it common or not comon for guys to be spanked by female teachers at your schoo. At most schools around here, including mine, only the principal or VP (or Dean in Kyles case) administers it, not any teacher. By the way, how many swats did you get?

So my basic QUESTION is, except for maybe where being paddled by an adult of the opposite _s_e_x_ is so embarassing that the school feels THAT is punishment enough by itself, why is it that paddling always seems to be combined with something else even though most other school punishments are just done by themselves?

Kirk from Indiana


Casey, near Omaha Friday, October 02, 1998, 9:00 PM

Kirk: Interesting question. Wait and see what Ryan and others say, maybe, about getting paddle all by itself. (What about Jeff in Oklahoma, too?)

But, I think you're on to something about causing you to THINK after they first shock you into paying attention.

Maybe it's also that a few swats by themselves--after the first few terrible minutes- -aren't really all that bad, and they don't think it may be effective. Maybe they also think that if they gave enough licks to be really effective all by themselves, that would bring protests, more human rights questions, etc.

Note how Scott told Jeff he would have taken licks in a heartbeat if he could just avoid The List, even though his older brother had told him (earlier posting) that licks at that school had been really bad when they had them there. If Scott would have found them so much easier to take than The List, maybe they wouldn't have turned his conduct around, either.

Remember, I could have had swats only, instead of the paddle plus counseling, when I got caught smoking in Idaho. But I would have had to take EIGHT of those suckers, which no one in their right mind would do after feeling the first three, if allowed to take counseling instead.

And, three years later, I haven't smoked again. So maybe the combination stuff works.

Just a few thoughts from Casey on a cool fall night in Nebraska. Go Huskers!


Jeff Friday, October 02, 1998, 9:58 AM

About that question: In 8th grade here in Okla. I got 5 pretty strong swats with a paddle for cutting health ed. class. Swats and that's all. Sometimes they give kids swats plus other punihment, but Kirk I didn't get that.

Other things: somebody talked about "paddle manufacturers." Every swat board Ive ever saw was from the wood shop, or made at home by the principal or coach, not by some fancy company.

Also, Roger asked if paddling was painful or just embarrassment. YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE it hurts Roger, and everybody on this list who says he got it seems to agree. I don't see anybody who says it doesn't bother his butt, because it DOES. But it really doesn't last very long unless you get somebody whose cruel. It might not be cool to say it, but I've never had an adult in school whose really cruel. They punish you they don't abuse you.


ALEN ALEN_63@HOTMAIL. COM Saturday, October 03, 1998, 5:29 PM

IM DOING A RESEARCH REPORT ON SCHOOL DISIPLINE. IF YOU HAVE RECENTLY BEEN PADDLED, PLEASE ANSEWER THE FOLLOWING AND E- MAIL ME. WHAT GRADE WERE YOU PADDLED IN. WHO WAS IT BY(TEACHER OR PRINCIPAL)HOW MANY SWATS DID YOU GET. DESCRIBE THE BOARD. WAS IT IN THE PRESENCE OF A WITNESS. DID THE EXPAIN WHY YOU WERE GETTING PADDLED.# OF SWATS. WHAT INSTRUCTIONS DID YOU RECIEVE PRIOR TO BEING PADDLED. AND FINALLY A SWAT BY SWAT REPLAY, BE SPECIFIC, HOW THEY FELT, HOW YOU REACTED, AND ANYTHING ELSE ON TOSE LINES


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Saturday, October 03, 1998, 4:33 AM

Kirk and everybody, I see talk about in-school suspension (ISS). At our school people who've been suspended cant come to school. What is ISS? You can come to campus but dont go to class? Can you keep up on your classwork so you dont get zero's? Can you be with your friends at lunch?


Mike Monday, October 05, 1998, 5:37 PM

Roger, I'll answer your question but I'd like you to now answer one.

Psychologically, the cane is much more fearful than paddling. To be caned has always been serious stuff and seems to really command respect from day one. Also, the swishing sound of the cane cutting through the air is ominously low key but nerve- racking. And when the cane first whacks your butt the burn is sharp and the piece of cheek it hits stings to the max. Anyway, you feel like yiping real good on the first lick. Yet after a couple of swats I think your butt goes into pain overload. While each stroke still stings like hell, they don't seem to get much worse.

Getting a spanking doesn't really have the same fear to it. And the first whack doesn't kill your ass. Only after 3-4 well connected smacks, when your butt cheeks are truly in flames, do you realise that you've seriously underestimated how the paddle can really burn your ass.

Which one makes you desperate to see the fire department race in with a water hose, or makes sitting down sting more? In my book the paddle wins hands down. For some reason, the paddle doesn't give your butt the luxury of a pain threshold. Each smack just makes the situation back there a whole lot worse. Anyway, they both burn a lot and make their point.

So Roger buddy, you think you're lacking a little old fashion discipline? Mike


Watch The Topic Monday, October 05, 1998, 7:49 PM

Hey, 15-year-old Steve, you gotta control that 22-year-old-brother of yours! Remember you promised us last week that you were returning us to our regularly scheduled program! Seriously, we need to remember that most of us were told this was a "forum board" for teens to talk about their experiences with teachers and administrations, not for adults to tell us what we need. It really helped when Mike could answer Roger's question last week about what a caning was, and when Zahari confirmed it was accurate. But NOW, when we get an adult asking a teen if he needs some discipline in his life, HAY, most of us can get told THAT at school! (Thanks for listening to my opinion, dudes and girls, and have a good week at school, everyone).


Jesse Monday, October 05, 1998, 8:02 PM

Mike, until I read the latest message (from Watch the Topic) I was going to say: "that's very interesting." But now I'm not sure I should ask you any more questions or not.

Well I'm going to anyway because I already asked you on Oct. 2 (you probably missed it), where did you go to school -- England? I'm also going to ask, what did you do to get the coach upset? Like Kirk I'm also curious whether you got any other punishment too -- and most importantly did spanking with the paddle change your behavior and why? Were you embarassed like Casey was when you had to change clothes in the locker room afterwards or did lots of students get it so it was no big deal to see the results? Or is it the firey pain alone that does it?(There's no paddling at my school so I am kind of curious, like Ron and Roger.)

But you're still just a visitor here so no lectures on how the younger generation needs discipline!

Kyle, ISS s u c k s ! ! ! The only good parts about it are that you keep up with your class work so you don't get zeroes in your classes and your parents don't get mad at you. Everything else about it sucks. You don't get to see your friends at lunch (you have sack lunch alone at your desk) or take part in any after school activities (sports practice, games, dances) on the days youre in ISS. It's very strict. There's no talking -- absolutely no talking -- or even gesturing to other ISS students. No sleeping or napping. You can use the bathroom only at pre-set times other than the class breaks so other students will be in their classes. No gum chewing. You can't bring any snacks or drinks except what you have for lunch. ISS starts 30 minutes before regular school and ends 30 min. afterwards and you have to leave school immediately so you don't see your friends even if they were still hanging around.

When youre sentenced to ISS you have a day's warning so you can get assignments from your teachers. Studying all day long is the only thing you can do. At least we don't also get swats like they do at Kirk's school in Indiana.

Roger, do you still think America is a primitive country? What country are you from?


Jesse Monday, October 05, 1998, 8:08 PM

P. S. to Kyle -- In ISS, no leaving your seat without permission, either.


Roger Monday, October 05, 1998, 4:26 AM

I understand that paddling and caning are serious and painful, but I still don't think that physical violence is the right way to enforce discipline. Some of the writers seem to treat it is a a macho thing, a badge of honor. The only story that make me think otherwise is the one where a severe paddling was joined with counseling to end smoking. Did that work for others who got it as well?

Did those of you who got paddled know in advance that that might happen when you did whatever you did to get in trouble? Did the paddling stop you from getting into trouble again. It sounds like the early morning physical workouts are disliked more than paddling. They, a least, are good for your bodies.

I live in New York State and there is no paddling here. It seems to be limited to the midwest, south and southwest, more conservative areas of the country.


Roger Monday, October 05, 1998, 7:57 AM

When you guys post comments here if you would keep them inside the comments "Box" they wouldn't spill over into the Blue line at the right edge and we could all read them better.


Dave Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 10:22 PM

Roger, if someone backhands me across my face, I call that violence. A school spanking may sting a lot, but I don't think it is violent. It is NOT a great force that causes notable injury or seriously threatens anyone. The wacks are controlled and applied to the bum. I can't see how anybody can consider that a big deal-except the poor guys who are getting their butts tanned. And if this forum is any indication: they seem overwhelmingly supportive of paddling as one of several ways.

People that argue against paddling say its "wrong", "cruel and degrading", "barbaric in this day and age", violation of childrens's rights", "violence begets violence", and so on. Some people on this forum have expressed those "gut" feelings. That's fine, expressing those opinions is what our forum is for. Yet those gut feeling are just that, they are not based on reason only feeling.

I too have a gut feeling that I touched on before in this forum, but I needed to bounce it around and I still feel unsettled with it. That's why I asked for Kyle and Kevin's feedback. I think the licks do more for you that just stop you from using tobacco or beating up future bro-in-laws. For one, I don't believe that school boards (except perhaps Mormon ones) care that much whether you live 10 more years. If they did, the cafeteria would be stocked with healthy food. There must be more to it than that.

I think the paddle helps hold a bigger line on discipline in general. It is a wholesome, all-American way of encouraging us to respect school decorum and ourselves, and also to be good and positive. I think it also toughens us up and gives us internal discipline. What is so "mocho" about that?

No one here has stated a strong preference for suspension, detention, or lines etc. Maybe we are all turned off by the brainlessness and mediocrity that those punishments foster. One thing that can be said for paddling: it engages the brain, big time. My gut feeling is that it also engages our drive and perception. I think that is one reason they've been whacking kids for thousands of years. Dave


Scott Collins Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 12:02 PM

Roger:

OK, I'll press "ENTER" at the end of each line, but on our computers here at school they use MS Int Explorer 4.01 and we NEVER have print spill over onto the blue stripe. Have you tried another browser?

Roger I think you are right that the paddle is limited to the south and other conservative areas of the U. S.

There is a web page listed on this forum that showed which states allowed it, but when I just checked it the page isn't working. But I looked on my CD here at school and surprisingly that page was there from when I looked at it a couple months ago. The page was dated Nov 1997 and said that these states allow the paddle: Ala., Ariz., Ark., Colo., Del., Fla., Ga., Ida., Ind., Kan., Ken., La., Miss., Mo., N. M., N. C., Ohio, Okla., Pa., Puerto Rico, S. C., Tenn., Tex. (they don't have it at my schl, but obviously as Kyle knows they do have it in the state), W. Va., Wyo.

I don't think this forum should just be about the U. S. What other nations besides the U. S. and Malaysia have corporl punishment?

All for now.

-- Scott (with only two crummy mornings to serve on "The List"! :) )


Roger Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 12:21 PM

So Scott, how is the "List" going? Are you

getting all buff?


Scott Collins Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 2:59 PM

Roger: Let's put it this way. I certainly see how Kyle is kicking butt on push-ups with his Dad every morning, and on his school physical fitness test, after having served two weeks of that stuff, if his workouts were anything like The List. One week won't make me an Olympic champion, but they DO make you work out! Ouch! I kinda pity Kyle, having to do TWO weeks, plus six swats with the holey paddle. Texas IS strict with us young'uns! As I mentioned to Kyle in the posting last week, Coach is being real tough on those of us now on The List, because he's angry that my best friend Greg has been sent to The List three times in a semester. The Group has now given The Treatment to Greg after workouts Friday and again today. I wasn't going to join in today, but they threatened me too, so I "helped a little," sorry to say. But I think I may have convinced the Guys that we've been tough enough on Greg and to leave him alone tomorrow and Wed., I hope. The man in the principal's office who sent us to The List called us down this morning to tell us the substitute we were rude to last week was back at school today and that we should apologize to her. He didn't threaten us with more List if we didn't, but he kind of hinted. Guess what? We aplogized! And she was not real friendly about it.


Casey, near Omaha Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 3:24 PM

Andrea, I'm afraid you're gonna be sorry you asked that question here on the Forum! At least you're lucky that Kevin, the hard-nosed student court guy, who wrote how important "responsibility" is, is on his trip and away from the forum now. He'd have a real hissy fit over what you did!

You can't be sure that you're writing a third of her lines was responsible for your sister taking up smoking again, of course, but you made it too easy on her. You shouldn't have.

You're in a different grade and all, so I really think it may be unrealistic for you to turn both of yourselves in for what you did, though that is worth thinking about.

Here's what you CAN do. Start telling her how smoking isn't cool. If you know people she really admires, successful girls, good-looking jock guys, or whatever, who don't smoke and are happy and successful, tell her. Tell her all the things she can buy if she doesn't have to spend money on smokes.

This is similar to the pep talk I got from that counselor in Idaho.

Now, don't make it easy on her or help her cover up. If she gets caught smoking again and gets the Paddle, it's NOT going to kill her (but cigarettes might). Or, same thing if you get it for helping her cheat. You'll live.

(We don't see that much about girls getting swats, though. What state are you in that they do this?)

Of course it's painful, but somehow I made it through. Now I don't smoke, am happy, get good grades, have good friends, and no psychological problems from the paddling!

OH YEAH, I'VE GOT A GREAT GIRLFRIEND TOO, and since she's sitting with me right now I'd better remember to say THAT! :)

I know you and some other people in the forum hate the paddle, but it's not the end of the world. What I DON'T know is if the paddle by itself would have stopped me, or if I needed the counseling too, so that is why YOU need to start your own informal counseling, Andrea.

Sorry to be so tough on you, but Jasper's right.

Now, about Roger's complaints of the type going into the blue line. It's a real pain to hit ENTER each line as Scott suggested. Lori's computer uses Netscape 4 and mine and the school's use Microsoft Explorer 4.01 and none of those have problems with going into the blue. Wonder why Roger does? -- Casey in Nebraska.


Roger Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 3:36 PM

Scott, so what constitutes the "treatment?"


Jason M. Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 4:50 PM

Andrea: If your family didn't like the punishment your sister would get for not doing the lines, she or your parents should have gone to the school about it and tried to work something out. Because you don't believe in spanking is not a reason for cheating on writing the lines. You both messed up, and you should face the trouble theyll give you. Sorry, girl, but you need to tell them what you did. And if she smokes again she should face the music on that too. -- Jason

P. S. to Michelle: Your friend just needs to get over it. My dad says "time heals all wounds."

P. S. to Roger: From Scott's writing last week it looks like the "treatment" is just an old-fashon red belly (we call them "pink bellies" here). We don't have spanking here in my state, but we do have pink bellies! And if they don't have THOSE in your fancy New York state, well, somebody else from the wild wild west can explain!


Roger Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 5:10 PM

I am guilty; I do not know what a red belly is. Please educate me!


Esther ngsp@mailcity. com Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 9:16 PM

What's all this about paddling in schools and what's a paddle like anyway ? I'm a 14 yr old Malaysian girl and I don't think i've ever heard of students here getting hit so hard as to make them cry!!!!! Here ,teachers use a cane and it's mostly on your palms but they do cane boys on their bottoms too( girls only get it on their hands)I haven't been subjected to any kind of corporal punishment since i entered secondary school and i don't see people getting it very often either .Students are usually caned for cutting class , being rude to teachers, fighting, not doing work, etc, etc. Some guys do smoke but mostly not and those who do only dare to after school. Most teachers don't use the cane that often, and most of us stopped getting spankings from our parents since we entered our teens. And my school isn't a private school or something either....it's a coed government school with not exactly the best reputation!!!!!! Schools in the US seem to be MUCH tougher on pupils......


Roger Tuesday, October 06, 1998, 6:40 AM

In addition to having to learn what a "Red Belly" is I am curious about how many guys show up every morning for "The List". Are they from all grade levels? What is your daily routine like? Also, you probabaly know that your coach is using the rest of you guys to shape up your friend. Coming to the List doesn't seem to do it, so by being tough on all of you he knows you will put pressure on your friend; that may shape him up more than anything else but you have to bear the brunt if it!


Craig Andrews Wednesday, October 07, 1998, 4:10 PM

This doesn't have much to do with teachers or administration or school disciplin, but I think what Scott Collins and Jason M. are calling "red bellies" and "pink bellies" are what we called "cherry bellies" at summer camp. When you were mad at a guy or just wanted to get back at him, you ganged up on him, held him down and took turns using your open hands to make like you were playing bongo drums on his belly. No big deal but it did sting and make it red, pink or cherry-color, whatever. You usually tried to get a guy when he didn't have a shirt on so you didn't have to rip it off--so these happened coming out of the pool or the shower or pulling a guy out of bed early in the morning. Thats probably why Scott talked about his friend getting a treatment in the shower room. We used to have Easterners at our summer camp Roger and they did this all the time so Im surprised you never saw stuff like this. OK, back to school & teachers and stuff on this board.


Steve Wednesday, October 07, 1998, 5:37 PM

Am I missing something here? My brother is directly asked by Roger a question and he answers it and asks Roger a simple question in return (which is still unanswered). I don't remember seeing him lecturing anybody on the need for discipline.

I probably made a mistake in asking him to answer Roger's question in the first place, but that is no reason to have a go at him. That was my fault and he is certainly not to blame.

I'm asked to control a brother who is 7 years older. Do I do that before or after I slap my parents around?

Hey dudes, am I off-track here? Could you please help me out. Steve


Jim Wednesday, October 07, 1998, 6:28 PM

Is paddling right? When I was 14 I was caught cheating on my finals. I lied about it but was unable to take the exam over, so I was destined to repeat the year. Once I gave up the lie, the "natural consequences" of cheating was deemed by my good parents as sufficient punishment.

Evidently, I didn't think so. For the next couple of months, I did all sorts nasty stuff that I am not proud of. I broke into houses, and set fires. One fire was under a bar and could very easily have caused several people to be caught in the inferno and burn to death. While that one very stupid act caused me to wake up, my actions were inexcusable, as was the lax discipline that preceded it. Anything short of electrocution should have been applied to get me clearly back on the straight and narrow.

I'm a little older and wiser now. I don't cheat, so the natural consequences worked in that department. I was lucky, so my burglaries and fires were not found out and that chapter is now, thankfully closed. But other people were at serious risk, as were their property and the things they care a lot about.

Out of this, shrinks can find arguments for and against school paddling, but I know "myself". Had my school done a major number on my butt for the cheating, the other stuff would not have happened. I can guarantee that.

The answer, I believe, is that a lot of guys have a sense of the discipline they need and will push the boundaries until they get that. If they don't get it, they will push further until they get clobbered. When that happens, they settle down. Problem is, it is often way too late.


Scott Collins Wednesday, October 07, 1998, 8:48 AM

Roger: Yes, Craig and Jason guessed right on what the Treatment was we gave to Greg. I thought everybody knew red bellies. At least you do now.

Well, the LIST is DONE, and for me I hope I don't go BACK for a while. Roger it started every day with stretches and jump jacks, but then went quickly into all sorts of push-ups, leg-lifts, sprints, stadium steps, running laps, duck walks (on all fours), crab walks crouched holding your ankles), etc. It was more than we had on the "List" when I had it last year. Also, because Coach was mad at Greg everybody said the sprints were far more than usual, and he had us run with tires around us during some of the running.

Of course you were right Roger that he was trying to get us to take it out on Greg. I think Greg may have learned his lesson, too. The last couple of days he was real quiet as most of us were too, and he got his belly left alone at the end.

NOW -- on all those other comments, Mike, Steve and so on. Dont get worked up, people. I went back and read what people were apparntly fussing about and I think all they were trying to do was get us to stay to topic of school and teachers and school rules, etc. Look--Craig pointed out that red bellies after working out dont have too much to do with teachers, Kirk wondered why Roger was asking about which punishment was better when he was againt both, and Watch the Topic (huh? what a name!) was saying that this may not be the right page on the Internet for an adult to ask a kid if he needs displin.

Dont get too upset about him jumping on your brother for what you did Steve. We dont even know your full names so what difference does it make there.

But if you look at some of the OTHER teenworld forums where people are calling eachother "fags," offering anonnimous spankings and maybe flaming about the US military and whether circumcissin is good, MAYBE IT ISNT ALL THAT BAD THAT A COUPLE MEMBERS HERE SIMPLY WANTED TO STAY TO THE TOPIC. That's how I look at what they said anyways.

Now are we all STILL FRIENDS? And no Steve, dont "slap your parents around." If you do we'll find your school, put you on THE LIST, and if they've got the paddle there, well see that you get THAT too. Administered by your brother! :) :) Calm down everybody.


Roger Thursday, October 08, 1998, 1:58 PM

I just want to answer several questions directed to me. On Oct. 1 Mike provided a fairly lurid description of paddling and caning. I was just curious as to the "bottom line" (pun intended) as to which was worse. Thanks for the response, Mike. As to Mike's quesiton to me: Do I think I am lacking a little old fashion discipline? I am not sure I know what this means. I have not been spanked, paddled or caned at home or at school but I am a disciplined person and have no need to be physically abused. Of course, others may.


Kevin Thursday, October 08, 1998, 4:36 PM

Hello I am back from a student leadership conference and trip, just in time to find so many people on this Forum growling at each other! What gives, y'all?

Seriously, I probably need to answer questions left for me during the last 2 1/2 weeks. I better do it now because Dad is still working on our pc and I may not always be able to get on here.

Ryan, i read your question last night and talked to a good friend of mine who is on the student court with me, and I also talked to my sister's boyfriend (who got his suspension for firecrackers/M80s reduced to a VPR by the student court). Both didn't think that a guy getting the buttboard after girls on the court casting votes for it was that big or bad a deal. Kelli (on the court) said when she first ran for the court her girlfriends giggled about her getting to vote for big hunky guys getting swatted, but that since she's been on the court she just tries to follow the rules and be fair (though she says she would even be in favor of some type of corp punishment for girls, to be equal). And I agree--Kelli is very serious in her votes She talks and acts like she thinks of VPR as a referral, even though we know it's gonna mean the paddle for a guy. Chad, my sister's boyfriend, said he was just so glad to get out of the suspension, and so anxious to get the VPR/swats over with, that he didn't stop to think about the girls who voted for it. And while I didnt take my case three years ago to the court, if some girls would have voted that I get a VPR or the paddle, I don't think I would have been more embarrased because they were girls voting about me. So I see what you say, Ryan, but it hasnt really been too big a deal for us.

Incidentally I found at this leadership conference that swats in high school were certainly in the minority of schools, and mainly in the west and south as was indicated here. Swats for girls were even more rare, but a couple girls at the conference--and Trisha on this Forum--said they do occur at some schools.

I also found out at the conference that many schools are moving to "The List" or "Discipline Status" like at Scott's and Kyle's schools, though these formal penalties are still not all that common in the U. S.

Andrea, they really guessed right at my response to your situation. You should not have done that! You and your sister both need to take responsibility for your actions. (Don't know if that means I had a "hissy fit," but you did mess up, Andrea!) What did you decide to do?

Esther--regarding your question on being tough on U. S. pupils and making them "cry." Since I'm one of the ones who mentioned "tears" (Kyle was the other), I need to clarify. It wasn't like we were screaming and bawling like little babies. It was just that we thought we were tough football players and didn't want to yell or gasp in front of each other or the guy administering the paddle. The punishment was such a shock and pain that a few tears built up and the eyes got watery while we tried to control ourself. The way I read what Kyle wrote, it seemed similar with the so-called tough guys at his school. So yes, at least in some parts of the U. S. they are tough on pupils, Esther, but it is more that a few tears build up, not real crying.

Casey, as a court member I was really interested in what you wrote about getting caught smoking in Idaho. I mentioned to our vice principal at lunch today that I had read something interesting about smoking penalties that I wanted to mention to him, and I will pass on your experience.

Dave, I really don't know what to say about your theory that they swat you to prepare you for a rough world and not just because you're using tobacco or beating up a little twerp (!). While I really think the reason I got those awful eight licks was that we beat up Chad for no reason, I guess it also taught me to take rough treatment. But it was pretty clear that the real purpose was to punish us for beating him up, and nothing beyond that.

Finally, Roger, one of the things I like about this Forum is that people are free to disagree. And I do disagree on one thing. They way I was paddled, and the way Casey was too, wasn't "abuse". (Maybe the three of us kids abused Chad, but the school didnt abuse US.) I'm happy now, and not feeling any lasting problems from my punishment, and Casey said the same. Kyle and Jeremy were less specific, but I'd guess the same is true for them. So, people are free to say its abuse. In my case, I think they are mistaken.

OK, that's enough for now. Y'all be nice to each other, ya hear?


Jesse Friday, October 09, 1998, 7:12 PM

Welcome back Kevin! Why don't you also invite Kelli + Chad to join in the discussion, too? What state is your guys' school in? How big is it?

Esther, thanks for speaking up from Malaysia. Maybe you can get some of your friends to comment, too, so we can make this more an INTERNATIONAL forum like Scott would like.

Scott, I agree with your (calming) comments to Steve/Mike and everyone about this forum. I like it the way it is, too.

Is ISS as strict at everyone elses school as it is at mine? Its as strict as Kristi (May 15) said Saturday school is at her school. Kyle, which would you rather have, ISS or ... ?


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Friday, October 09, 1998, 6:42 AM

Jesse your right, ISS sounds nasty. Your question about what Id want is, of course, NEITHER. But seriously that is kind of what I first asking about, whether the Discplinary Status was too much and so many people started talking on this forum about the paddle instead. I guess to answer your question Jesse, with the six swats I got, I would also have gotten six days ISS too, at least at Kirk's school (is that right Kirk?), and there is NO WAY. The bad thing is that you are kept away from your friends. In Discplinary Status I came to school early alone and had to stay late and go home alone, but at least I could be with them in class and at lunch, and NOT THAT WAY in your ISS crap. SO, I would prefer to take the 2 weeks of workouts and cleanup rather than 6 days ISS, but probably would want ISS if it was just a day or a Saturday or something like that.

KIRK what does somebody get at your school for chewing tobacco, first time, with no chewing busts before but a little bit of rowdyness and ditching class that they know about in the year before? ISS and licks? --Kyle


Craig Andrews Friday, October 09, 1998, 7:48 AM

Jesse:

The ISS at our Colo. school is just like yours but the hours are even worse. 7 a. m. to 5 p. m. That's bad, no?

I was sentenced to a day last year but when I got there the vice principal met me and said he'd suspend it as soon as regular school started at 8:15 and let me go to class. Whew! Even that hour and a quarter sucked.

But I had to agree to serve the day on top of any other punishment if I got in trouble again. I didn't.

Jesse did you ever have to go? What state are you in?


Roger Friday, October 09, 1998, 7:58 AM

I am trying to get a "handle" on this paddling subject. You guys who have been paddled; if you were to screw up again would you prefer paddling to the SSI and "List" alternatives?

Also, I am curious about how serious these school paddlings are. I understand they hurt, but several of you have mentioned going on to the gym and being seen by others. What is there to see? Just a red butt or is there real bruising? I take it this is not just a "red belly" on the other side.


Scott Collins Saturday, October 10, 1998, 2:44 PM

Roger: Our teachers would say youre missing the point because the whole purpose after a punishment that sucks is that you DONT screw up again. I was paddled in junior high/middle school, and I got "The List" last year in high school and again just now. And each time I was sorry and didnt want to get in trouble again. Since I did, though, I guess your question of "which" is an OK one. The answer would clearly be the paddle because it ends a lot quicker than The List.

I guess Id discribe it as a red belly on the other side but several levels more. In middle school it left it red for a few hours and it was a little splotchy and it hurt during that time. The next day it was all a memory.

At this high school when they had it, my brother said, it was worse. When he got licks he and I shared a room and I remember his butt was red and welty the night of the next day after he got it. It looked like it hurt and he said it did. My dad saw it too and was not real upset but he did tell him "Dont show Mom." (He wasn't going to!)

Even though it was worse in those days, he still wasnt black-and-blue and bruised for a week or anything. I agree with you THAT would be abuse.

The high schools around here that still use it, I don't think use it that hard (I've talked to some guys in my church group who go to a school that has licks). i think the fact that our school used it so hard is why they stopped licks all together and started The List a few years ago.

Roger I know you say well if his butt had welts a day and a half later even that must have been abuse. For whatever its worth I still might have taken that over The List because it was so much easier and quicker in time. And my brother may not think it was abuse because I know he still favors corporal punishment in Tex. schools.

Anyway, that answers your question about which choice a guy who has been paddled would make. I'd take a "bad red belly on the other side." Not The List. But I really would try not to sass that substitute teacher if I could start over again.


Roger Saturday, October 10, 1998, 3:50 PM

Thanks Scott for your answer. The reason I asked the question is that the feeling I got from a number of guys was that although paddling was not pleasant, the alternatives are a lot worse. If the school is trying to come up with something that will make you think twice before getting i trouble, I got the feeling that the LIST or the ISS \ was actually more effective since they were more dreaded. From one of the reponses I even got the feeling that the writer did a calculation and was perfectly willing to risk a couple of swats for a day off. Maybe paddling is too quick and to easy if you are trying measure its deterrent effect.

I have never meant to imply that school paddling is the same thing as child abuse. I have only meant that much of world is moving away from physical punishment and capital punishment. Texas and the South in general are still firmly in the camp for both. This whole subject one this list got me intersted and I have done a little research. Many school districts have dropped paddling because they concluded that it just didn't work. As has been noted on this list, the combination of licks and something else, such as the List or ISS is more effective. Then they discovered that just the List and the ISS works fine by itself. A lot of the comments on this list seem to support that.

I get the feeling from some of the posts here that at your schools the halls are crowded with guys heading for the VP's office for a paddling and that at the end of the day he has to go home hand soak his sore arm in a bucket of cold water after his day's labors. At my school the punishment of choice is ISS and various clean-up details but there don't seem to be so many punishments handed out. Maybe I am just not aware of them.


Dave Sunday, October 11, 1998, 1:49 PM

Does anyones school use "Plexiglass" paddles instead of wood? I went to school in Indiana and in Jr. and Sr. High, they used them more then the old fashion wood kind there... most with holes too. They never left bruises, but they seemed to burn/sting alot more than wooden paddles.


Jennifer Monday, October 12, 1998, 2:47 PM

At my high school (in Texas), "VPR" usually means the paddle if you are a boy or a girl. A few years ago, when my older sister was in school, only boys would get the paddle. Then a lot of people complained it was _s_e_x_ discrimination, even some gilrs who who would rather take licks that Saturday detention which might mean there parents would find out they were in trouble which would mean a whipping at home anyway (or losing their jobs if they had to work on Saturday). If your a girl, you don't have to take the paddle, but that is the whole reason you asked for VPR instead of suspension. Because our VP is a man, girls get refered to the female PE coach for the actual whipping. The office sends a note to get you out of class about twenty minutes before 6th period ends on Friday (so you have to worry about it all week). Then you go to the locker room, and there are usually at least four of five girls that are going to get it on an average week. I got it when I was junior for skipping Latin class. Five other girls got it the same week, two freshman, another junior and two seniors. The PE coach takes each girl individually into this back room when its her turn. It is pretty scary when she comes out with the paddle and calls your name. The paddle was made in shop class I think, and is about three feet long and six inches wide with holes drilled down the middle. There is a bench that is about waist high and you have to take down your pants and bendover it. Its pretty embarassin until the first lick, and then all you think about is the pain. The PE coach is a former college triathlete, and gives VERY hard licks with a full wind up. After the third, my butt stung so bad I thought I'd rather have suspension and I'd definitely made the wrong choice. I was totally shocked at how bad it hurt. All but one of the girls cryed the week I got it. By the fifth and last lick, I was bawling. Fortunately, whe whole thing was over in about two minutes. My fanny was sore for a few days, but after the real sting wore off, I was glad I took the paddle instead of suspension, although it definely wasn't worth getting out of Latin class.


Roger Monday, October 12, 1998, 7:10 PM

So Jennifer: Did you get bruises? It sounds bad. Scott: How many licks did your brother get?


Scott Collins Monday, October 12, 1998, 8:56 PM

Roger he got six or eight I think. Second offense smoking in boys room. They got him big time. He lives away now and isn't here to ask how many licks exactly. Jennifer, by "take down your pants" I assume you still mean over panties. I've never heard of a Tex. school doing it on the bare butt. Either that or you go to a real "bad ass" school. Ha Ha. Now dont yawl put me on The List for bad language. OK?


Roger Monday, October 12, 1998, 7:22 AM

Soctt: So is your brother still smoking? (from his mouth I mean)


Scott Collins Monday, October 12, 1998, 9:39 AM

Roger, no he isn't. That's how I knew he favors corporal punishment in schls. When he was visiting last weekend, I was still on The List, and we couldn't go fishing Sat. AM because I had to clean up school trash. Anyway, we started talking about school discipline. I showed him this Forum, and he saw the swats and counseling that guy Casey had to take in Idaho, and my brother thought that was a real good idea. He said he would have gladly stopped at three and gone for counseling when he got busted, and it probably would have been just as effective. But even though my brother had just licks and not any counseling, he doesn't smoke anymore. I don't know if it was the licks or the fact that his new girlfriend is a big athlete, they both go for long bike trips, love physical fitness, etc. He also thinks The List is good because of the workouts. My brother read my Sept. 29 post and said he was glad to see me bragging that I don't smoke. After he read about Kyle, he asked me if I chewed. I said no, and he said good because he would have whipped my butt bigtime if I did. My brother the fitness nut. Makes me sick!


Bernice Tuesday, October 13, 1998, 10:53 PM

I was at a football game last Saturday cheerleading for my school when I got into an argument with a cheerleader from the other team. I told her to "F--- off" and the coach heard me. She reported me to the Vice-Principal and now I have to write, "I will not use profanity while cheerleading." 1,000 times. I guess I'm going to be busy tonight and tommorrow night because the punishment is due by Wednesday or I can't cheer at the next game. Boy, this is really going to suck. I think I'd prefer if they just had paddled me, instead.


Roger Tuesday, October 13, 1998, 2:33 PM

Come on Scott! We all know that girlfriends are far more powerful than any paddle! If schools want boys to stop smoking all they have to do is find us health- conscious girlfriends. I don't know what it would take to motivate girls.


Kevin Tuesday, October 13, 1998, 3:00 PM

Jesse our school has about 1650 students and is in Arkansas. No jokes about the President please.

Casey I talked to our boys v. p. and he agreed your counselor was pretty conscientious and that was a good punishment. Our v. p. says he tries counseling with the guys caught smoking (or chewing, Kyle) who are sent to him on VPR, but not as formal as the guy did with you. Still, our v. p. says the way the student reacts to the counseling affects the number of swats he ends up dishing out on the VPR. Unlike your school in Idaho though, the district here requires a suspension in addition to any swats for tobacco infractions.

The v. p. also told me that there have been complaints here too--I guess I didn't know about them--that swats for guys only are _s_e_x_ discrimination. He said the principal is thinking about that. The current girls v. p. doesn't believe in them, but she and her husband are leaving in December, and maybe her replacement. . . Some schools around here use the board on girls in the younger grades.

Scott I agree--I've done a lot of talking at leadership meetings, in student court and on this forum--and I've NEVER heard of swats in school given on the bare bottom. My Dad said there was some of that in his college fraternity but not in school. He said that in his own high school years ago the coaches threatened to give them bare if they found anything other than a jock strap under your shorts, but it was just that a threat and it was a long time ago anyway. So maybe we just didn't read Jennifer right.

Bernice if you really want to get in trouble tell your vice principal to read the dictionary. Telling someone to F off is more "obscenity" than "profanity." While "profanity" can mean vulgar--which you were--it usually means something against the Lord or sacreligious. Really!


Kevin Tuesday, October 13, 1998, 6:18 PM

Andrea: You've been real quiet! You asked the group for advice on the situation of you and your sister cheating on her punishment for smoking. This group really gave it to you! SO, WHAT DID YOU TWO DO?


Dave Tuesday, October 13, 1998, 11:05 AM

Does anyones school use paddles made from "Plexiglass" insted of wood? I went to school in Indiana and they did there, most with holes. People have said they give alot more sting than wood and dont leave any brusing like wooden paddles can.

I was just wondering if this type of paddle was used in other areas too?


Chris Wednesday, October 14, 1998, 12:41 PM

Roger, you were talking about me when you said: "the writer did a calculation and was perfectly willing to risk a couple of swats for a day off. Maybe paddling is too quick and to easy if you are trying measure its deterrent effect". Let me clarify.

Whenever I've done something risky, I've played the tough guy. The James Dean body language is all there. A hiding is a distant possibility. But then my luck breaks and my wee tush is on the line. The tough guy quickly melts away. Negotiations fail and it's pay day. Like Jennifer, I'm told to bend right over making my bum a huge exposed target for smacks, each of which burns my butt something wicked. At that point I definitely recalculate. My stinging butt cheeks sure help me do that.

Also, I know that this has knocked me down a notch or two and it is good to know that the other "tough guys" have also had their butts tanned. To me, it means there was a moment they weren't all that tough.

My point here is that as a bit of a rascal I want to be able to take risks and I'm willing to pay a fair price for that. After all, everything costs. The day off school won't kill me or anyone else and I'm sure that no one was trying desperately to deter others from skipping school. It can be fun and the danger of getting licks makes it more of an adventure. You're messing with the system in a fairly harmless way. I don't think my school or my parents want to completely stop that. But they do make sure costs my butt bigtime.

The hiding causes me think intensely about the situation and deters me from doing it again. It also quickly settles the score and makes it clear to everyone else the cost of doing mischief. Everyone comes out ahead.

On the other hand, ISS and detentions are bureaucratic wrist slaps that waste everybody's time and are unequal (ie those with jobs, etc suffer more). Nothing equalises guys more than a burning red butt. And it is quickly over (10-15 sec max)!

By the way, if your luck breaks and the paddle is heading your way, don't even think of cheating. Unless you are wearing pants that are pretty thick (like jeans) and the padding can't be spotted, or your VP is blind, you are just inviting those smacks onto your naked butt. I thought of padding for my 5 smacks as I only had thin flannels on without a pocket on the left side and I suspected that he would pick that cheek. By the time I was bent over and my shirt out (I certainly tried that!), there was so little fabric that even the warm up wacks stung. Any padding would be spotted. One thing your VP has is loads of butt check to choose from, and he'll pick the most exposed and sensitive spot. All you can do is get your bum in the air and start recalculating!

Kevin, while I'm here, was my 5 swats (asked Sept. 30) generous by your court's standards? Also, is the paddle applied to jeans etc or do you have to get changed into gym gear like at Kyle's school? I would hate having to walk to/from the VP's office in my shorts and jock strap, but I think it is effective. Chris.


Kevin Wednesday, October 14, 1998, 2:41 PM

Just got home after a Court meeting and there you are Chris asking a question about the Court. Can't get away!

The short answer is that I don't know how many swats you would have gotten for fighting or truancy. Unless they were severe cases, you certainly would have gotten a VPR and probably not suspended, but the v. p. not the court sets the number of swats on a VPR.

A boys' VPR is ALWAYS a severe paddling--fewest I've ever heard of is 4, and the most 10. Always hard. The ONLY exceptions, they don't happen often at all, are for disabled guys or those 4 or 5 boys in the whole school whose parents have requested no-swats, and even there he'd find another way to make you miserable.

I've never had the paddle from this guy--when the three of us beat up Chad in 1995 it was after practice and the head p. e. coach whacked us (over gym shorts only), but nowadays all swats have to be done by VPR.

Those who HAVE had it--even the toughies--all say it is very, very bad. That's kind of amazing to me because the v. p. is REALLY a very nice guy, but he has a policy that when the paddle is used it should be bad and scare not only the poor guy, but all his friends too, into never coming back. He volunteered one time in a joke to give the guys on the Court a "free personal demo," but we thought better of it!

He just has guys clear out their pockets and gives them over the pants--I heard one time a guy wore superheavy work pants of some sort and the v. p. sent him out to get shorts and supporter (plus shirt and shoes--it's in another building), but that is rare.

So I really don't know the answer to your question: certainly more than 2 on the truancy. The fighting would have put you near his upper range, I think, but not sure exactly where. And Chris there's no way you're totally back to normal in 15 SECONDS! Nobody's THAT tough, James Dean dude.


Roger Wednesday, October 14, 1998, 3:32 PM

Kevin: Your vice principal seems like a good guy; I wonder if he knows first-hand what kind of pain he is dishing out. You ought to ask him if he has ever bee on the other end of the paddle.


Kevin Wednesday, October 14, 1998, 4:30 PM

He has been, Roger. He said he got it in school and in an oldstyle college fraternity. Then a year ago there was an auction as part of the campus United Fund celebration when contributions went way up. The winner got to take 4 licks at him, and there were other auctions too like the girls vp washing your car. It turns out the high bidder on the swats auction had taken licks from the v. p. himself so it was really payback time. I was absent that day but everybody said the kid really dished them out and the v. p. took em well. The principal asked him not to do that again this year, he says, because the principal didn't want to make a joke of the punishment process. Otherwise he said he would have, and I believe him.


Chris Wednesday, October 14, 1998, 8:49 AM

Kevin, I stand corrected. The whacks last 15 seconds, the sting lives on!

Seriously thought, I think you would agree that after the last smack, the sting doesn't matter so much. Sure, your butt burns a lot and you would really like something to stop that, but you can live with it-as long as you're not invited again to take any more licks until full recovery.

That is why it is really annoying when some jerk in the change room thinks it's funny to lay in a full blooded whollop. Chris.


Roger Thursday, October 15, 1998, 11:25 PM

15 seconds? Is that accurate? For how many swats? I would have thought they would drag out the whole thing to make it more unpleasant.


Chris Thursday, October 15, 1998, 5:20 PM

Hey Roger, I'm not counting the seconds, I'm counting the whacks. My point is that you take your licks and they are over amazingly quickly. Once done, things get a whole lot better by the second, hour, day. In other words, it is all down hill.

The only moments I've had any regrets was when my butt was in the air and I was waiting for the first smack to arrive, and half way to the end when the heat had built up. Once I know the whacks are about over, for me, it is finished. It still stings, but in my mind, the worse is over.

When ý got 5 swats, the third was the wake up call. I dreaded getting the forth, but the moment I heard the fifth land, I didn't really care: me and my butt were out of the firing line. In all, it was probably 15 seconds. Sure, the sting intensified moments later, but thre are ways of getting over that. Chris.


Steve Thursday, October 15, 1998, 4:07 AM

I'm sorry guys, but I'm really slow on the uptake here. But I'm not mad or anything. It is just that if someone criticises me or someone I care about, I'll try to see the sense in the criticism and if I find it's not there, I will be defensive.

Roger asked Mike a question which he answered and in exchange he asked Roger a simple 9 worded question back. Roger's answer to Mike's question was right on the subject that this forum has been discussing for 5 months now. Does anybody doubt that? Yet the person named "Watch The Subject" and others criticised Mike for going off subject and lecturing youngsters with his question. Mike is a good writer, but I don't think he is capable of delivering a big lecture in a 9 worded question to Roger.

Now if Watch The Subject wishes to change his/her name to Get Off The Web Page, then that's different. Perhaps Mike was wrong, because he is 22, to come on the forum in the first place, or to take the liberty of asking his own questioner a question. The first I would accept (and accept responsibility for asking Mike), the second I won't. Why?

Because Chris, you've really messed my head up with something you said. It may have been by accident, but it was the wisest 2 words I've ever heard: EVERYTHING COSTS. Darn right it does! And I believe that if you ask someone a personal question on this forum you should be prepared to accept a challenging one in return. After all, Kyle and others have braved almost as much heat here than they did in their VP's office. But that bantering is making this forum outstanding.

I appreciated Roger's candid answer and while I don't share his view, I do respect it. Personally, I feel the paddle and/or cane are missing at my school. Like Chris and Kyle, I've messed about and I don't feel all that bad about that. I am also willing to accept bureaucratic-friendly punishment where I'm treated like a convict and made to turn my brain off. But I know that this politically correct, gender-sensitive, punishment is much less effective, and less respectful of me as a thinking person. It's strange, but if I got my butt paddled there, I would have more respect for the school and feel that they have more respect for me.

But I'm also different from Roger in that I'm use to getting a warmed backside at home. If I'm in enough trouble, I know that my Dad will make me bend over the footboard of my bed, drop my trousers and briefs, and take about half a dozen whacks with his belt across my bare butt. The leathering stings about as much as I would expect a school paddling would. Perhaps more, because the leather directly hits my skin (not even gym shorts and jock, Kyle and Kevin) and when a smack lands right on top of another, it REALLY burns. Also when we are rough-housing or I swear, my two older brothers get me with a red belly or slap my butt (usually as hard and as many spanks as their hands can bear-no mercy). My parents don't stop it because Mike is fair and funny about it. I learn respect, Dad doesn't have to kick in with the belt, Mom tells them to stop and is ignored, and my brothers have a riot watching me stand and rub my bum for half an hour while watching TV (to me it is an unacceptable way of solving a chair shortage!).

By the way, Mike says that fraternity paddling is now against many campus rules, but off the record, it is NOT uncommon. Heck, I've grown out of my mother's brush and probably by now my Dad's belt, our school board is too scared to touch any kids, I'll soon get the upper hand on Mike and look forward to giving him a sound thrashing- only to be faced in three years time with a bunch of fraternity thugs ready to really tan my ass (oops) with a massive butt board! EVERYTHING COSTS!!!!!! Steve.


Rick Jacobs Thursday, October 15, 1998, 6:11 AM

Steve: I'll be as brief as I can. I was "Watch the Topic." My name's Rick. I'm on the student council at my school in a suburb school district in Kansas, U. S.A. We're working with the principal to update our rules and penalties. Except occasionally by the varsity sports coaches, there are no licks here and haven't been since some of the larger school districts (Wichita, for example) outlawed them a few years ago and our school voluntarily went along. Some of us think they should bring the paddle back--I've had it a couple times over the last three years from Coach, both times it got my attention, turned me around, and the next day I and my rearend were just fine thank you. Well, as part of the council meetings the principal asked me where I had met so many kids who knew so much about swats in schools. I told him the forum on the internet and he said that's fine and a good idea as long as its really an exchange of opinions and not one of those internet pages where adults with _s_e_x_ spanking fantasies try to dominate or even find other people, sometimes kids, to get involved. I am NOT saying, and DID NOT say that that is what your brother did. REPEAT: I did NOT say that. But I DID notice shortly after my principal's advice that an adult was asking a kid if he needed some discipline in his life, and since I had just a day or two before told our principal that this was just a place where kids exchanged experiences and ideas, I thought we should consider keeping it just that. I thought it was real cool your brother could answer the question about what the thrashing was like, but wanted to raise my personal opinion of a "red flag," as one of my teachers says, when an adult said something that could be viewed as an adult telling a kid what he needed or should do. I wasn't at all sure he meant it that way, and still am not, which is why I tried to keep that comment, and this one, so good-natured. But this forum has been valuable to our council and I wanted to keep it that way. (I probably should have been more direct but I didn't want to offend anybody with mention of the three-letter "s" word.) If I screwed up I'm sorry (but I can't get swats for it--our principal doesn't give 'em.)


Roger Thursday, October 15, 1998, 6:58 AM

The problem with writing is that things are or often misunderstood. I took the question to me about whether there was enough old fashioned discipline in my life as a joke, but it could be interpreted as something else.

I would still like to to hear from those who have reported serious paddlings: does anybody get bruised? I know they hurt, but bruises would indicate that they are really delivered with a lot of power. Secondly, is Chris's 15 second time period for 5 swats typical? I am just trying to envision what these experiences are like.

If you grow up with this I am sure it is perfectly natural; if you don't it seems quite strange and it is hard to imagine that it really happens.


Rick Jacobs Thursday, October 15, 1998, 8:00 AM

Roger I agree with Chris that you really don't count the seconds that pass. You have a whole lot more important things to worry about! I will tell you this, last spring after practice I had to take 5 licks from Coach with a paddle-with-holes for some pretty nasty horseplay I'm not proud of. The street address of our family's house is 1644, and I noticed that, when he had me bend over in his office and grab the chair legs (in shorts and jock), that the digital lighted clock in Coach's office said "16:44" (4:44 p. m.). After five very painful licks he told me to stand up and recover, and I noticed the clock said "16:45" and I remember thinking that was the longest, most painful minute-or-so in the history of the world! (It would have been anywhere from a few seconds to almost two minutes, since the clock didn't say the number of seconds.) So Chris' 15 seconds is possible, but maybe just a tiny bit on the short side. A lot of red on my butt for a few hours, and a few welts that night that were gone the next morning. No bruises. Glad you saw the earlier question from that guy as just a joke, and that may well have been all it was. OK, gotta go to class.


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Friday, October 16, 1998, 1:06 PM

Hi everybody I'm Mark in Okla. They use swats at our high school. On boys and girls. Its pretty simple, it isnt much fun and its always an alternative. Many kids--Id guess at least half who have the choice--take it to get it out of the way. I know all you want is another Southerner telling you about the buttboard, but I'm gonna tell you anyway.

It works like this. You can take swats instead of anohter punishment (if that punishment is anything up to a three days suspension), and you can do this only twice in a school year. After that you HAVE to take the other punishment, which may be suspension, ISS, detention or Saturday school or whatever.

You can't take the swats option if you are disabled, if your parents have told the school not to paddle you (not common), if your offense calls for a suspension of more than three days, or if you've taken it more than twice in the school year.

Other than that, if you don't want the punishment they give you, you tell the office you want the "corporal punishment option" and they give you a pink slip. You go to the guys or girls p. e. coach office at end of the school day dressed in gym clothing, show them the slip, and one coach gives you the paddle with another coach (also a guy for guys, or a woman for girls) as witness. If it's the first time you take the option, you get four licks. If it's the second, you get eight. Simple as that, and not much fun. They also add two more if it is instead of an at-home suspension, so in a few rare cases they give 10 swats! Sometimes, I think, the coach doesn't even know what you've done wrong--he just gives the number on the pink slip.

The bad part is that you can always change your mind, but if you do you have to take the full other punishment. One guy had to take 10 a couple weeks ago, got to seven and couldn't stand it any more, and had to take the whole suspension. Not good!

Last year I went up through April with no problems, and when I drew a Saturday school for three tardies in April I thought what the heck and took the licks. It hurt a lot more than I thought it would but like everybody has said here it was over quick. Bad part was, for skipping last-period study hall on a pretty May day almost at the end of the year, I got ordered again to take Saturday school. My big sister was getting married that Saturday, so I couldnt do the Sat. school (which I would have done, because eight is a lot of swats), so I HAD to take eight, and it was bad. No, no bruises but some welts while I was at my sisters rehersal dinner! Ten would be terrible, but I guess thats the idea.

They didn't give girls swats until last school year (a year ago August), but they do now, to be equal, like Trisha from Tenn. said a few weeks ago. But I'm not sure they give it as hard, who knows? A girl I know said when she got it last year it was no fun but no big deal. I wouldn't say that--for guys, for a quick time it IS a big deal. She also said the girls paddle, at least when she got it, didn't have holes. Ours does. So this is equality? (smile) At least they do give it to both, though.


Casey, near Omaha Friday, October 16, 1998, 3:52 PM

I got three items to add and then Lori needs to use her computer, so I better get busy.

* * * *

(1) Andrea you will never know if your helping with your sister's lines meant she didn't get the message and had to get a second offense, but as you say now, at least she finally got it. Not still smoking cigarettes I hope.

I am sure you will agree with me that whether you favor it or not the paddle didn't kill her. But 20 swats sounds hellish. I see from your earlier post that she is in 8th grade. Maybe it was a little paddle or something, because 20 of the kind that Kevin, Kyle and I, and now Mark, are talking about would be absolutely awful.

Your own dishonesty didn't get directly punished Andrea, but I hope you have the message as well.

By the way, does anybody agree with me that writing lines is a STUPID useless punishment?

* * * *

(2) Kyle your "Disciplinary Status," and Scott your "List," seem to be spreading. Starting this month (Oct. 1) and thru at least the end of this semester our school has what is called "Special Morning Activities Crew" (S. M.A. C.) (the kids are starting to talk about getting 'SMAC'ked) which as far as I can tell is almost the same thing. Both guys and girls have it, but sep-arately from each other. It is special workouts at 6 o'clock Mon. through SATURDAY morning! It is an experiment to see if it works--(the teachers and principal must hear about these things at conferences or something). Since it didn't start until October we kids are just finding out about it. My buddy has to go all this week for being late a bunch of times. He's in real good shape but he hates it, though I think much of that is because he has to come to school early and can't ride in with his girlfriend. He said it is like what Kyle and Scott talked about: laps, stadium steps with tires, sprints, thrusts, and push-ups, push-ups, push-ups. Lori thought she was going to have to go to the girls version. She got caught goofing off in chemistry lab (she hate chemistry) three times in one week and they actually sentenced her to a week, but they suspended it so that she only has to do it if she does anything else wrong this semester. They did have her talk to the girls coach to find out what it was like, and the lady flat out told Lori she didn't want to come to this stuff. I guess Kevin was right what he found out at his meetings: schools are starting to try out new penaltys like this.

* * * *

(3) Note to Rick Jacobs. First I agree with your cautiousness about discussing such things as spanking with strangers on the Internet. When Lori first told me about this forum I was real cautious and told her I didn't want to discuss my experience in Idaho. But she convinced me that it is an honest discussion and nothing real weird. If it gets weird, she and I are OUTTA HERE, and I bet a lot of the other regulars are, as well. I hope it stays sane, though I agree with your caution, Rick.

Now, however, it seems you were out there LURKING (!) for a long time, if you were really sharing a lot of this with your student council over the weeks and never joining in. As we found out today, you too are in favor of swats and have actually taken some, but we haven't heard from you until today.

But what I really wonder is this--it must have been really BAD "horseplay" to get you five with the holes. C'mon Rick, what did you do? Kyle had a world-wide publication of his licks and workouts for chewing, and Kevin and I got to be pretty well known too, for our little crimes that got us the board. If we took all that "scrutiny" from the Web, what in the world got you in trouble, Mr. Rick Jacobs?!!!! -- Casey


Will Friday, October 16, 1998, 5:35 PM

Wish we had the "swats option." I got framed this time (I admit that i had the cigs on me but I was being careful never to smoke them in the building). Just because they smelled smoke in the bathroom and found the pack on me, they say I was the one.

This is my third time so I got the maximum. Wish they'd just paddle me and get it over with.


Steve Friday, October 16, 1998, 3:36 AM

Rick Jacobs, thanks a million for 'fessing up and for your comments. Roger is right when he said that these postings don't tell the background. I now understand where you are coming from and for the most part I agree with your concern. But if even an 84 year old felt that they could answer a question or contribute to the discussion in a one-off, I personally would not have a problem with that and would probably welcome it. Provided of course, that they tell us that they are not a teenager.

I'm flattered that our comments here could influence your schools decision on whether to bring back the paddle. Is the pendulum swinging back? We're still too hung up on rights and stuff for that to happen now, but personally, I'm in favor of it (and I KNOW that Mike and my parents are). After all, if I and my friends mess up at school, why should my Dad need to be involved? I'd rather have fun with my Dad and get my butt whipped at school, than the other way around. So I think I would be willing to take the pink slip to the PE office and bend over a chair or table (what is it anyway?) for 5 or 6 whacks across my gym shorts. The fact that I'm not related to the guy who is "adminstering" the licks is much better for everyone, than what I now have.

But just in case the paddle is headed our way faster that I expect: Chris, could you let us in on those secrets of how to get rid of the sting? There is no way Mike is ever going to tell me! Steve (bro of rebel Mike).


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Friday, October 16, 1998, 5:58 AM

Hey, Rick Jacobs, I agree with Casey. What did you do to "earn" the swats? FESS UP BUDDY. (We did!) (I also agree about being cautious about internet but I think majority of people here just kids sharing stuff about school, and hope stays that way)


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Friday, October 16, 1998, 6:36 AM

Casey I think youre right about the workout punishments. More and more schools are trying them I think because theyre trying to find something that gets to you but in the end is good for you. Teachers principals and deans must talk to eachother in conferences or maybe on the web--i would love to find THAT forum. Different schools have different names, Discplinary Status here, The List at Scott's school, s. m.a. c. in Nebraska, and my cousin in Kansas City told me they call it still different name at her school (they have it for girls and guys there too). Still my school is the only one I've seen that makes you do stuff both before and after school and our Dean the only one that still combines it with the board across your butt. Do they have these workouts at anyone elses' school? -- Kyle


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Saturday, October 17, 1998, 12:45 PM

Will: So what is the "maximum" that you got for third-time smokes? You gotta realize that if you had taken swats two times before in the year you could NOT have taken the swats option this time. You also need to know that while it gets it over quick, the swats option is pretty nasty, particularly for second offense which is eight licks with holes, or sometimes ten. It burns bad. Anyway, what did you get on third time smokes, Will?


Kevin Saturday, October 17, 1998, 6:55 PM

Will: At our school on third time cigarettes you would be looking at two weeks at home as a minimum, and if you were selling or distributing them perhaps expulsion to a special school. What did you get?


Kevin Saturday, October 17, 1998, 7:00 PM

Rick: A serious paddling just for "horseplay?" Huh? What was it, Guy?


Rick Jacobs Saturday, October 17, 1998, 7:14 AM

You guys aren't satisfied with me telling you I'm not proud of what we did, and that I think swats in school should be allowed. No-o-o-o-o, I got to tell you WHAT we did.

We're baseball players for our high school. We lost two games in a row and the next day we were supposed to just have shorts-and-tank top batting practice but knew Coach would make it bad on us because we had lost, and he ran us ragged, sure enough. Well, after practice we ganged up on one guy who had made two errors the day before that caused us to lose. We "pantsed" him, took EVERYTHING away from him except his tank top and baseball cap--I mean EVERYTHING--and made him dash the 150 yards or so to the locker room . . . .not just barefoot but really "hanging loose" if you know what I mean.

Gosh, we left him with his tank and cap and he could have tried to wrap those around him and be somewhat modest, but he wasn't that smart. He just ran!

We had planned this in advance and one of us had "borrowed" the key to the lock on the school flagpole line from his brother, a boy scout who had the duty to take down the school U. S. flag every afternoon. So after we got this guy pantsed, we took his shorts, shoes, socks and carefully placed the jock so it was real obvious, ran them up the flagpole and locked it. No one knew about this part until the school janitor found the stuff up there the next morning.

What we didn't know when we planned all this is that spring tryouts for the football girls cheerleading/pep group were being held on a part of the field this guy had to "streak" by to get into the locker room. The guy we pantsed knew a lot of the girls who were there. This grossed a couple girls out, made most giggle, and made their adviser lady REALLY mad and she complained to Coach. Coach often let us get by with little stuff, but not this time after she complained, particularly I guess because this involved nudity.

When we got back in from our trip to the flagpole, Coach was waiting. He didn't look all that angry, and I actually thought I saw him smile a couple times, but his swing told a different story. Four of us each got five licks--paddle with the holes, grabbing the legs of this chair from standing on the other side of it. The other three had to wait facing the other way in his office, hands to the wall, while one guy at a time got punished. I was first, and when each was done we had to go back to the wall, hands to it, and wait for the rest. They really were pretty painful, make that very painful. . .but the next day we were fine.

What's kind of unequal about all this, though, is that the kid's brother, the one with the key to the flag pole, was really in on it just as much as we were but because he wasn't an athlete and only Coaches give swats here, all he got was one-hour's detention when they found out.

Okay, okay, Kevin and Kyle and everybody, I told you what we did. Pretty stupid, I know. But it doesn't make us criminals for life, does it?! Just horseplay! And, coincidence or not, those were the last two errors in a game that guy made last season, really!


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Saturday, October 17, 1998, 8:23 AM

Rick Jacobs, of course you saw your coach smile, because its funnier than crap! He had to punish you because the old lady griped at him, nudity and all, but you just gotta know he would have done the same thing when he was a kid. We dont have boy scouts do the flag here but I know a kid who has a parttime job with the custodian and who may have a key. Ive got an idea now! -- Kyle


Richard D. Sunday, October 18, 1998, 10:19 PM

I attend a private christian school in Alabama where corporal punishment is permitted. The spankings are usually administered with the open hand, the paddle is reserved for serious offenses. Girls can only be spanked by female staff members while boys will get it from male and female teachers. I was spanked several times when I was in junior high but only twice since I started high school. Last year I got my butt warmed by our female vice-principal. I had to bend over a chair and then she slapped my bottom ten times alternating buttocks. It didnīt really hurt but embarrassed me quite a bit. Well, itīs still better than a paddling.


Chris Sunday, October 18, 1998, 10:33 PM

Steve, AND I WON'T EITHER!!! Actually, I don't know any neat tricks to get rid of the burn, but I imagine there are things you could get from the drug store for that. Everybody I know that gets their butt whacked usually bears the sting as quietly as possible. After all, It looks pretty funny seeing tough guys with tears in their eyes mowning and trying to rub the sting off. I've headed to the showers for a cool spray on my butt cheeks, and that does work (DON'T get the tap wrong). But if your timing is bad and the showers are full, you're really screw...d. If they are younger kids they'll laugh their socks off at your spanked ass, and if they are older, they'll do the same but make you feel about 2 years old. Not to mention that bigger guys could add a few slaps of their own. That happened to me when I was bending over (stupid!) and it made me jump just about to the ceiling (the thug (knows my brother) who whacked me put everything into it, got the red spot dead on, and then complained that he busted his hand on my bony butt-I seriously wished he had). But the shower was worth it. Put it this way, taking it is almost as risky as running jock straps up flag poles!

Next time, if there is a next time, I'll definitely try to run the sting off, particularly if I was wearing the gear anyway. No one would know why I was on the track, and I could give some private thought to mending my ways etc. not to mention what it might do to my track times. It's good that your brother's coach makes that happen, even if that means getting the licks on shorts only. The worst part after the smacks is standing or sitting (worse still) around with nothing else to think about. Any comments Kevin, Kyle, Rick etc?

And Kyle, you don't like sitting much, do you? Anyway, if you're willing to brave 6 more smacks from your dean and boot camp drills, then good luck. If you are going to go out and get your ass tanned, you might as well get it tanned for something you can tell your grandkids some day. But don't expect much sympathy for your sorry butt from this forum! Chris


Jim Sunday, October 18, 1998, 12:02 PM

Richard: that must have hurt her more than it hurt you! What were you wearing? How old were you (HS??) and what did you do?

I think you've got to tell them to use that paddle but good. And get someone of the same _s_e_x_ who can hit hard. I hate to say this dude, but your school is not operating in the real world. And THAT reality is eventually going to kick their ass as well as that of their students'.

If your butt didn't come out of her office burning like hell then she wasted her time and credibility slapping you. It could and probably has become a bit of a joke among the guys. If so, that means that she has become a joke. Is Kyle's dean, or Kevin's VP and coach and others taken as a joke. Hell no! They are taken very seriously by some very tough guys. Christian school or not, most guys are going to be as tough as they can be. That's nature, but your female VP doesn't understand that.

Also, girls are not spanked by the opposite _s_e_x_. Why then are the guys? There are potential social problems with this (_s_e_x_ as well as gender domination. I'm guessing here) plus the fact that the female VP just does a quarter of the job.

Sorry, but you've got to get the student council to straighten out the admin. They're completely dizzy on this. I suspect they think that after a couple of light slaps on your fanny, you'll get the message without having to upset you too much. Is the board a bunch of nice old ladies or something?


Roger Sunday, October 18, 1998, 1:02 PM

Rick: Wonderful story! You are luck your coach didn't think to "make the punishment fit the crime" and make you take your swats bare butt!


Scott Collins Sunday, October 18, 1998, 4:34 PM

Kyle: I agree with you that Rick's stunt was pretty funny, but DUDE this isn't the time for you to get ideas. Dude they'll hammer you bad if you get into trouble so soon again. Read back about what happened to my friend Greg as a repeater on The List-- it was not fun, and YOUR school beats your butt TOO. I know it is all good fun, but be careful Dude. Really!

You other regulars out there don't you want to help wise Kyle up before it is too late?


Shane T. Monday, October 19, 1998, 3:51 PM

Hi -- My school is different from most here because your parents decide how you will be disciplined. It's a pretty small (< 200) Christian secondary school in Florida. When you get in trouble you have to take a slip home for your parents to sign and you have to bring it back the next morning. Your parents can either indicate they've handled the problem and state how they did, or they can direct the school to do it, specifying keeping you after school, having to atend Sat. School (that's quite popular because it gives your parents a Sat. a. m. that's free), writing a paper on some topic, or paddling. Spanking is the one that most parents report using and it's the one they most often ask the school to use if they don't do it at home. (Of course, sometimes you get that at BOTH home and school!)


Steve Monday, October 19, 1998, 2:30 AM

Chris: Thank you for letting me in on your suggestion of cold water or a run. The paddle isn't coming to our school any time soon but I'll keep your ideas in mind. My dad hasn't hung up that belt for good so those ideas may come in handy.

Seriously though, I agree with your implied message: when you are in deep trouble and you're going to get whacked, you've just got to take it. There is no other honourable way out. You'd be a real wimp if you went for some sort of medication afterwards. If I even turned on the shower at home after a hiding my brothers wouldn't stop laughing. The reason they've shown any mercy is because they know that the old man lays it in good and anything on top is no joke. If I tried to dull the sting with a shower they would probably get me right out of the shower and tan my butt real good.

As for Kyle, I hate to say it but I'm with you, dude. As long as it's a harmless prank, well, what is life for? The down side is the drills and getting that nasty paddle smacked across your butt and the fact that your friend could loose his job. Besides the last point which is an important consideration, if you are willing to put your ass literally on the line and it is worthwhile, then get it out of your system. You don't sound like you're through getting into minor trouble anyway. At least you get wholloped with your shorts on. I don't! Steve


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Monday, October 19, 1998, 6:06 AM

Thanks for your advice, everybody, but first I gotta say Steve I would never do something to get a buddy to lose his job. Since there are at least seven or eight kids who work for custodiean, how would they know? But when I mentioned this to another buddy Sat night he said his English class first period is right next to the flagpole and he has watched and doesn't even think it is locked.

If we ever did this, they'd sure lock in then! Or if they read this, but not very many others at my school other than me and my girlfriend know about this forum. I hope!

Rick's prank made me laugh like crap because first it is harmless and second there are some real dweebs in our p. e. class I'd love to get, and there is a girls class out there at the same time with a real fussy older lady who runs it. I just thought it was funny and so did my friends I told about Rick and his prank.

But I also heard Saturday night that one of the two others caught with chew with me was caught again and that the Dean really did him in this time, even worse than when we got caught. I would NOT want to do that. So even though I agree with Steve and Rick that a little pantsing is harmless I think back to when we got caught and I really am not sure I want another date with that paddle right now and I _d_a_m_n_ sure don't want discplinary status.

I still wanna get these dweebs but might hang low awhile.

But my friend is gonna look out his English class window today to see if the pole is locked! We will see! Happy Monday! -- Kyle


Kevin Monday, October 19, 1998, 9:56 AM

Well Kyle when I read last night how tempted you were I told myself that the tough punishments at your school either don't work or aren't tough enough. Now I at least see that you are reconsidering based on your Dean.

I really feel both ways about this. First what Rick did was minor compared to the roughing up we gave Chad, and got swats for three years ago. So I guess it is sort of harmless. On the other hand nudity makes some people nervous, particularly women, and you know that if a policeman saw a nude person in a public place someone would go to jail. So be careful not to offend somebody just because you and me may think it harmless.

Finally, gotta remind ya: at our school I've heard guys say that the only thing that hurts more than a VCR is a SECOND VCR! And you have that workouts-trash detail to think about too (doubt if they'd suspend you.) So, keep cool, guy, though I'm not gonna say don't do it because I think you've gotta decide yourself.

What happened to the guy who got busted for chewing tobacco a second time? Is he still in school?


Kevin Tuesday, October 20, 1998, 10:03 PM

VPR--now I've done what Trisha did. I'm sitting here in the computer lab watching them install audio visual equipment and even though I'm on the court I called it a VCR too. It's Vice Principal Referral, VPR, and at our school for guys (and maybe girls soon too, we hear), it's a fancy word for a butt paddling. -- Kev


ben Tuesday, October 20, 1998, 4:42 PM

What cruel and sadistic teachers you have in usa. In britain teachers are there to help you not assault you every day. Glad i dont have to suffer being american.


Dave Thursday, October 22, 1998, 4:39 PM

Ben, I've gotta answer your point about assault. No one who has been paddled or spanked-certainly on this forum-have said they have been assaulted. Everybody says that it just stings their butt like mad. And most, if not all, have had the option of alternative punishments. If a kid really couldn't handle it well, I don't believe any school in America today, public or private, would smack them against their will.

In fact, many have said here that when they have crossed the line they wished their schools WOULD tan their butts. This is either because ISS's, suspensions, diapers, SMAC, lists, and all the other super modern techniques of disciplining kids have inequitable costs of their own. Or it is because they know that a quick hiding will bring them back on the straight and narrow, as well as maintain a necessary line on school discipline and decorum.

No one is punching these guys in the chops or tying them down to a rack. They bend over and take their licks on their own accord-and often on their own initiative. For instance, Mark exchanged a Saturday morning detention, where he would probably have slept in anyway, for 4 whacks of a paddle with holes and 8 whacks the next time. Let's face it, he was more curious than scared. I bet he was thinking: "I wonder if I can take that". On his first paddling, his butt got more than he bargained for, but he obviously knew that it would burn bad. He also knew that he was setting himself up for a really severe hiding when his luck runs out, but he was willing to take that risk. For what? A Saturday morning sleep in?

Most guys I know would do the same thing. They really don't mind the toughness of a school paddling, and they respect the school and teachers more because they dish it out.

And look at the learning they got that no other punishment would give them. Do you think that Mark will ever again spend his reserve (i. e. the easier 4 whacks) so carelessly? Later, in more severe circumstances. that harsh lesson could save his live. Someone else commented that his ethic prejudice was blown apart because a guy from another culture was brave enough to take his licks. Casey and Kyle stopped tobacco.

You said that British schools don't hit kids. Yet, I remember that during this summer Britain was forced to ban paddling and caning at private schools and homes because of their membership in the European Union. In fact, the British government fought to allow caning but lost to the officials in Europe-who feel that it is their duty to protect British kids from their parents and teachers. The fact is that American states like Texas now have more freedom of how school and home discipline is to be legislated, than European countries like Britain.

The best thing about the American constitution is that it is really difficult to mess around with. I suspect that if the British people had known what they were getting into with Europe's new overriding constitution, they might have been more guarded about their right to legislate local issues like school and home discipline.

I play colt rugby which is originally a British sport. British schools come over here in the summer for fixtures and we've hosted a lot of British guys. Except for the funny accents that you can't understand (particularly the Scots), they're culture is very similar to America. Some have said that they rather Britain was part of NAFTA than the EU because they feel closer to America, and they don't like the control that the Europe countries have on Britain. For example, under NAFTA, Canadians can't tell Texans whether they can paddle their kids, can they?? Even Congress can't do that.

The British guys I know are no different from American guys in that, if they could, they'd probably volunteer to get their butts tanned to avoid things like loss of their bathroom privileges or Saturday detentions. On the whole, they feel that the cane and paddle (up until recently a running shoe would be used on the buttocks for minor offences) should come back to British schools, and if it did, they would be willing to take their smacks from someone they respected.

There, under 15 paragraphs. Are you impressed Kyle? Dave.


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Thursday, October 22, 1998, 9:15 AM

Dave: You guessed right on most of your points about my punishment last year, but not all.

Yes, when I chose the four licks in April it was with a little nervousness, but mainly curiousity (and, wow, what a shock--a LOT worse than swats I had had when I was much younger).

But when I had to take the eight just a couple weeks later, that time I was totally scared and really didn't want to do it. We skipped that study hall on Thursday, and Friday morning I knew I had been caught. They usually give you a week's notice on Saturday school, but because they were trying to wrap up stuff for the year they said NO, YOUR SATURDAY SCHOOL IS TOMORROW. Our Sat. School is 7 a. m.--3 p. m. (not just morning), and my sister's wedding was going to be at 2 o'clock. I tried to set up Sat. School for a week later but they wouldn't move it, so I had to ask for the paddling. No flexibility. At all. This all happened at 11 in the morning and the swats were set for the end of the school day so I just was a total wreck for four hours worrying about it, and it ended up being bad.

The worst part of the swats here is there is no leniency, no breaks for being nice when you go in to see the coach, etc. He really doesn't care what the swats are being given for, if he even knows, and he just hands out the number on the pink slip, like a machine. If you don't like it you can stop, but you have to take the whole original punishment (in my case Sat. School which I couldn't do). The whole thing is pretty nasty really.

But I agree with you Dave it probably isnt a bad system.

I also agree that I will be careful before I spend my "reserve" (not that four with the holes is all that easy) this year. I'm trying to stay out of troble all together, but have had a couple of piddly one-hour detentions and didn't even think about using up the 4- swat-option for one of those.


Roger Friday, October 23, 1998, 11:22 PM

I can understand the points made by a number of guys who have been paddled, that it was bad but better than some of the alternatives, but some of the heated very emotional defenses of paddling combined often with very graphic descriptions seem strange. Some of you guys seem pretty emotionally caught up in getting your licks.

It seems to me that all a matter of what you are used to. If you grow up where this is done all the time you dont' think about it and find it hard to think of a world where it doesn't exist. If you aren't used to it, as I am not, it seems unnecessarily violent. I can understand passion by those who think it is too harsh and I can understand acceptance by those who are used to it; I can't understand passion for paddling by those who are getting it--sounds a little masochistic.


Roger Friday, October 23, 1998, 2:27 PM

To be specific, I was referring to Dave, Steve, Jim and Chris. If you read back over their comments, they just seem a little strange for kids. Where are you guys anyway? Some of you keep referring to "bums". I have never heard that word used in this country. I have heard it on English TV shows. Are you in the UK?


Kevin Friday, October 23, 1998, 4:06 PM

Thanks for the answer Roger. You're not a bad guy for a Northern Liberal Yankee! (smile) Seriously, while I don't think I'll ever convince you on the buttboard, I agree with you obviously about the diapers, and I, too, have wondered about a posting or two--I won't name names. But I can't tell for sure how old the people are and I thought maybe we just had some honors students in Advancd Placement English class. I really don't care if an adult gives us a fact--like Mike telling us what the cane is like. But I have also heard a lot of warnings from people like "Watch The Topic" Rick Jacobs' principal.

So I've tried to be careful here in what I am reading, but I've hoped we could keep it to a serious discussion of what kids are dealing with. I see a lot of myself a couple years ago in what Kyle and Mark are going through now, and what Casey went through when he lived in Idaho. (But I've never used tobacco.) I just hope the Forum stays a good exchange of experiences. Casey and Lori have already said they're out of here if it doesn't, and Kyle doesn't like to read 15 paragraphs! I hope I can stay around, and that they do too. Trisha are you still there? You were always so calm and reasonable.

So let's keep it calm, people, okay? And if I was right in that everybody is a Kid and just real good in English writing, then maybe just cool it a bit on what Roger calls emotion.

Now to lighten up a bit. First, the term "bum" doesn't bother me, Roger. For one thing this is a world wide Forum based on a computer in Malaysia, and also, I am also used to it. We had a couple exchange students from Britain (one from England and one from Jersey, island wherever that is) at our school who got VPRs last year, and they kept talking about their hurting "bums."

Finally, Roger while we'll never convince you on the paddle, I thought for a minute last weekend we were getting close. When Rick cracked us all up with his story about the pantsing, you admitted what a great story it was and then said Rick was lucky he didn't have to take his licks bare-butt. I thought, "Gosh, this guy is coming around!" -- Kev


Roger Friday, October 23, 1998, 5:48 PM

Kevin: We Yankee liberals civilize the world, of course we're not bad guys. You guys who have described your own paddlings (without the sermons on it is the salvation of the world) seem pretty well-adjusted. You take your medicine, shrug your shoulders and move on. I know kids who couldn't deal with a paddling. If the school lets you choose your licks, that is one thing, but if there is no choice, I still think is is wrong. Making you do push-ups and laps may be unpleasant but it is actually good for you; making you stay in a room and study may be unpleasant but it is actually good for you at some level. Inflicting pain with a paddle may be an effective punishment, but \ it doesn't do anything positive.


Kevin Friday, October 23, 1998, 9:29 PM

About choice, Roger. At our school it's complicated but those who truly couldn't or shouldn't take the board are protected. Those guys that I can think of who fall into that group are listed as disabled OR among the few whose parents gave them a blanket block from swats. If somebody wasn't pro- tected there, they could still call their parents and asked to be blocked before going to the Vice Principal (yes, they would give you time), OR ask to go to court and get the punishment changed. Either way though there'd be a lot of detentions or a suspension, so it doesn't happen much. I suppose a guy in the VP's office could flat out just ask for a suspension too, but I don't know of a case like that either. As I said before, its more likely that guys try to get their detentions or suspensions converted into a VPR, not other way around. And I guess THAT gets back to what you've grown up with and are used to.

Your point would probably be that the pressure is on to take the swats and it should be more of an even, direct choice. I respect that opinion, but I just wanted to tell you how it is here. Nobody likes swats, but if somebody absolutely demanded another penalty I think they'd work it out.

Now, when the three of us went before the head p. e. coach for beating up Chad three years ago, I do NOT remem- ber any choice. But three 14-year-old football players would have put so much pressure on each other to be "tough" that we wouldn't have taken a choice anyway. Besides, the VP does all the swats now and the head coach doesn't any more. Everything is changed.

OK, it's almost 10:30 here and I've got a Physics test first period. Better get to bed.


Jim Friday, October 23, 1998, 2:53 AM

I read last night Roger's postings and I just woke up, a little angry, so let me vent this now so I can get back to sleep. I have a bad problem with what Roger has recently said about me. I looked back at my postings of October 7 and 18 and I don't see anything strange or perverted in what I've said. Do you? Of course I've used the term bum (that is American!!!) before, but I don't think I've ever written it, not on the internet anyway.

In the first posting I said: "Had my school done a major number on my butt for the cheating, the other stuff would not have happened". What is strange or graphic about that? In the second posting I said that a lady VP moderately spanking a tough guy with her hand is ineffective and possibly perverted. Anything graphic or strange in what I've said there?

Yet, Roger keeps asking for descriptions of paddling and caning. Is that strange? He and Jesse have this thing about getting all the dope on the UK and caning. Are they for real??? Let's cut to the chafe now. Come out guys!!! Jim

PS Sorry to be a SOB and mess up this site a little, but it is good site and people are getting stuff off their chest. If Roger and Jesse are weird, then let's get it out now and carry on. I really appreciate what everyone else has said and I hope that we can keep the site this side of normal. There is nothing wrong with people letting the whole thing out if they want. They should not be critisized for it. My arson is something bad that I've never told anybody before and probably won't again. See you in the morning!


Dave Friday, October 23, 1998, 7:25 AM

Mark, thanks for your comment. Sorry, I think I said something the wrong way. Try again: your choice of 4 whacks also carried the risk of getting 8 whacks if you got in trouble a second time (and chose that over Saturday detention). You knew that risk but took it anyway. You took the 4 whacks plus the risk of 8 to essentially satisfy your curiosity and/or to see if you could handle it. You learned.

I don't agree with doubling the licks for different offences. The fact is that some guys are going to mess around a little bit before they get old. So an idea. For others and perhaps your own future, you could suggest to the admin and your council 4,6, & 8 whacks. At least in baseball you get 3 strikes until you are out. I doubt that the system is cast in stone and they are probably open to tinkering with it. If you present your case well to the principal (ALWAYS go to the top, it just takes nerves), then they'll probably appreciate the input to what is probably a new system that needs refinement. If you tell them your story now, they'll respect it as constructive input and not as a last ditch effort to save your butt from a harsh tanning.

Roger, there is nothing strange in what people have said here. You asked guys to tell you about corporal punishment because you had never had to go through it. They have told you what they could from our own experiences, and what their view were. Sure, people who have been brought up with getting their butts warmed may not find it as cruel or unusual as people who have not. They may even be a bit defensive when do-gooders try to protect them from something that is normal to their culture and values, and responsibly practiced by their parents and schools. We are talking about good parents and good schools, who do nothing to their kids or students that is outside of the law or outside of what is normal in the community.

But I have never heard of a community ever forcing diapers onto a high school kid. I believe this is just a bizaare result of getting rid of traditional forms of discipline. Perhaps after they threw away the paddle, kids kept smoking in the can and the do- gooders came up with this politically correct answer. So we probably have them to thank for replacing the paddle with diapers. Thanks for the "human rights"-get use to the diapers, Kevin.

Roger, Jim is right. When you came onto this site you were strongly against paddling despite knowing nothing about it. Now that people have taken the time and nerve to share their experiences with you, you seem critical of them (including me). I don't know if you've mellowed your views; and whether you have or not, I do not think you have the right to accuse people here of being strange, simply because they have voluntarily answered your questions to the best of their ability.

And sure workouts are good for you. But is it a good idea to turn things that are good for you into punishment? I work out, mostly enjoy it and enjoy the results of it. (ie getting a good wind for rugby-which really is a running game). If I got it as punishment, that would seriously damage my motivation for getting out there and doing it on my own or with my team.

I see a lot of lazy people in school and I now wonder if they are being encouraged to sit on their asses by workouts. If you are good you get to watch TV and sleeping-in, and if are bad, you work. Are these good values? Kyle is really fortunate in that, besides the list, he works out with his dad. That is because he learns that working out is something he can enjoy, and is a necessity for a good life. But if Kyle did not have a great dad who works out with him, then he might have rejected any further workouts as being punishment. Does this make any sense??

Don't get me wrong. The list worked for Kyle, with a paddling thrown in to really get his attention. And I don't think Kyle is lazy. But lots of people are. Kyle was pushed hard by the list and that is really good (Kyle, I'm happier than crap for you, you know I am!) but that could happen without the exercise being the cost of acting bad. Lots of well behaved kids run up stadium stairs until it hurts, why couldn't Kyle? He probably could. He just didn't have anybody pushing him that hard when he was behaving. We can thank the do-gooders for giving us that bit of mediocrity as well.

In my first posting, I did 15 paragraphs because that was how long it took me to make the point. Bit wordy, I know. I'm 18 and an American and have had my wee butt smacked more times than I can remember. Strangely, I don't have a problem with that.--Dave.


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Friday, October 23, 1998, 8:21 AM

Logical, Dave, but I'm not gonna suggest to principal. I'll just try to stay clean. (only 15 WORDS!)


ben Saturday, October 24, 1998, 12:08 PM

TO DAVE The point i was making is that usa teachers seem to be able to do anything they want to kids. In uk we dont have beating (assault--use your dictionary) we dont have diapers (that is a human rights abuse) we dont have Saturday detention (thats false imprisonment). Our teachers are there to help us. Ok they have to punish the bad guys but because they respect us, we respect them.


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Saturday, October 24, 1998, 3:31 PM

Hey everybody. It is an interesting question on this Forum about whether workouts should be used to punish somebody, and I'm finding out that different people have different ideas. My girlfriend's dad used to be a coach and when I got Discplinary Status he said he hated to see anything that used fitness and exercise as punishment because fitness and exercise are good. (But he also was in favor of anything that would stop me from chewing, I think). My own dad, though, didn't think it would hurt me and though you all know I hated it, I really don't think it did hurt me at all.

What happened was interesting. I was never a couch potato but never a big jock either. But there are four guys in our particular p. e. class who were on Discplinary Status (one same time I was, and the others a couple weeks later). Anyway at the start of the year before all this happened we all sort of were in the "middle of pack" when running laps, playing touch football or whatever. Now we find almost every class we compete to see who can beat each other in laps, and we rush harder in touch ball, etc., and our p. e. teacher (not the same coach as at the punishment workouts) told a couple of us last week that we were trying harder in class and he had noticed.

(It also makes you notice the dweebs more, at the "back of the pack", and that's why Rick's pantsing story got me interested! By the way they do NOT lock our flagpole at school!)

And speaking of fitness most of us who had been through that did do a LOT better on the October fitness test. I guess that came from the workouts--kind of built up our confidence. So even though we hated them, maybe they are good for you.

Roger thinks they may be good, Dave isn't so sure. What do the others think?

Yes Dave I already was doing calisteniks (however you spell it) with Dad in the morning, but to say that Discplinary Status and what Dad and I do are both "workouts" is like saying our farm pond and the Pacific Ocean are both "places with water." There ain't no comparison.

Some type of workouts halfway in between is probably enough to keep you in shape and that is what I'll try to do in future. But Dave I don't think they made me treat all exercise things as something I have to avoid. -- Kyle


Casey near Omaha Wednesday, October 28, 1998, 5:47 PM

About Kyle's question on workouts for punishment, Kyle I see what your girl's dad is saying but I think a person's habits and feelings on fitness aren't going to be changed by a week or two that they get in trouble. If they grew up active and interested in exercise, wont they still be? My buddy who got the punishment here (they call it s. m.a. c.) played basketball with us Sunday and he seemed to enjoy physical ed and stuff as much as he always did.

Lori and I are really close to having to go, she is on her best behavoir in chem lab. I got two tardies in the last week and if you get three you have to spend a week under this new rule so Im trying to be real careful until Nov. 20!

Go Huskers!


Scott Collins Thursday, October 29, 1998, 3:29 PM

Casey I think you're right. The couple times I've been on The List I don't think it's "encouraged me to sit on my a--" as Dave would say. I see what Dave is saying about when you're good you can sit and you're bad you work out, but it didnt really work that way with me. I took it easy for a couple days after the List but I'm just as active now as I was before.

Still it was bad having to go out there every morning and have Coach be so tough. Especially since he was mad at my friend who was on The List too.

I dont recommend it! Kyle stay away from the flag pole. Casey watch the tardies!


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Saturday, October 31, 1998, 8:06 AM

Scott thanks for thinking of me with your warning to stay away from the flag pole but I had already decided to do that. At least for awhile!!! Got into some other dumb trouble at school this week. That was my second time in trouble this semester. I think Ricks flag pole thing was funnier than heck and I think a few buddies would have joined in, but even I dont want to risk getting in more trouble for awhile. Gosh this is no fun but I need to cool it. I dont want them to think im a juvie delinquint! Hope youre behaving too, Scott buddy. -- Kyle


Roger Tuesday, November 03, 1998, 6:00 PM

Kyle: So what happened? What did you do and what happened to you?


Kevin Tuesday, November 03, 1998, 10:02 AM

Well Kyle isn't Roger's question a pretty natural one? Are you going to fill us in, or are you still "stinging" (ha ha) from all the attention on your chewing tobacco?! What happened, Kyle? You didn't chew again, I hope.


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Tuesday, November 03, 1998, 7:10 AM

Dont have much time right now. Have to get to school. I got worst Ive ever had with paddle--holes of course--for going into locker that was not mine and taking another guys shirt. But even worse than the swats was having everybody think Im thief. I really wasnt going to take it permently and was going to give it back. Ill explain more when I get time--maybe in the computer lab or at home tonight. At least since Im writing this at 7 am Texas time you know I didnt get Discplinary Status this time or Id be down there working out now. But Ill have to do that too if I mess up any more. -- Kyle


Kevin Wednesday, November 04, 1998, 10:53 PM

KYLE WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?! I know I have to wait and hear your side of it but at our school whether you planned to give the shirt back or not you probably would have got more than "just" the whipping. Look I know the buttboard with holes is nasty business but you took someone else's property out of his locker! Without permission I guess. I'll wait for your side of it, but at our school taking property almost always gets a suspension, usually with a VPR (paddle) on your way out the door just to make sure you're plenty sorry on your way home. Why did you want to swipe a guy's shirt anyways? Was this a silly prank or something?


Dave Wednesday, November 04, 1998, 8:57 AM

OK, I'm converted. For some, punishment workouts push guys to the limit and if they have the right attitude, they hang on to their new-found fitness. Others, get the wrong message and see working out as something to avoid. Like the paddle, used sensibly, it is probably a good thing.

Kyle, the word that Kevin is looking for is: STEALING. Even if it was just a prank, lockers are private-that is why they usually have locks on them. But I'm sure you've heard all this. I doubt many people on this forum or at your school are unhappy that you also got to hear that paddle spanking your ass.

By the sound of it, your gym shorts are going to get a lot of wear & tear this year and you seem prepared to take the licks. So I'm not going to try to talk you into or out of mischief. Just one suggestion: if you are going to get into trouble, don't act alone. Besides misery enjoying company, you won't look like such a war criminal with your friends standing next to you. At least they'll keep you away from the socially dangerous stuff.--Dave


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Thursday, November 05, 1998, 12:56 PM

No Dave it wasnt a prank. That was Kevin guessing. Good guess but not right. I was stupid and got into trouble while trying to stay OUT of trouble! Yes it was stealing but you got to believe me I planned to get it back to the guy.

It was in p. e. class a week ago Mon. I took my gym clothes home for Mom to wash that weekend and brought em back Mon. When getting dressed for class I suddenly saw my shirt wasnt in gym bag. I asked other guys if they had a spare shirt. They all either said no or ignored me. I couldnt wear my regular shirt that I had worn to school that day because it was a full button dressy shirt. And I couldnt go bare top because our Coach wont let you do that except the first and last couple weeks of school when its real hot. The week before last a dude in our class came with no shirt and Coach made us all run some extra laps making the guy feel like a jerk. I didnt want to do that and it was only about 60 degrees out there anyway. And if you skipt the total class he takes a whole letter grade off the whole semester. SO I HAD NO GOOD CHOICE! I waited til guys left our part of the locker room for class and saw a couple guys had closed their lockers without putting padlocks on. I opened a couple and found what I thought was a spare white gym shirt, took it and put it on. I really didnt feel like a criminal because I was going to have Mom wash it, and sneak it back the next day. Really.

I didnt notice until later it had a pocket in it and was the regular shirt the kid had worn to school that day. Well, class went fine, though I was a few seconds late because I waited for the other guys to leave the locker room. So I had to do some pushups for that, but no big deal. But after showers the dude couldnt find his shirt and was getting all hyper. I told him what I did. He just went nuts. Coach saw the screaming and came in. He loaned the other guy a shirt from the phys ed office to wear to class (his regular shirt was all sweaty from me), then told me to get dressed and go to Dean of Boys.

The Dean was calm but real real pissed I could tell. He asked if I had anything to say and I said I really wasnt going to steal just borrow. The Dean said even if that was true breaking into a locker is serious and I could either take a 10 day syspension, OR. . . ten swats plus a month (4 wks) Discplinary Status. CRAP! The Discplinary Status would be torture for that long and I didnt know if I could take 10 swats, since 6 for chewing had been so bad and I thought he usually maxed out around 8!

I was a wreck but chose the swats and Discplinary Status. So it was back to the gym to change into trunks again then back to the Dean. Thats embbarasing anyway but I felt everybody really noticed me this time since I had given the borrowed shirt back and I was bare top walking through the halls--I guess thats a little hint how that guy in Kan. felt when Rick and his buds pantsed him! God I felt horrible walking back to the Deans office but of course my butt would feel more horrible when I got back in there.

Well I got back to his office and he was still pissed but even calmer. He said he beleived me but what I did was still serious and the property wasnt mine to take. Then he said that "if" I took the swats well he would "think about" suspending the Discplinary Status "if" I stayed out of trouble.

He started the 10 swats with his paddle and holes. You know they were real bad-- terrible--but I was trying to stay off Discplinary Status so tried to take them well. It was awful but after seven, NOT ten, he said the other swats and the Discplinary Status would be given only if I got into more trouble. I really dont know how I could have took 3 more swats because they hurt that bad. I was holding tears up in my eyes but couldnt hold much more.

The Dean then sent a form out to all my teachers telling them to report ANY thing I did wrong for the rest of school year. If they report anything I have to take the other swats and the Discplinary Status plus whatever the punishment is for whatever I do. If anything GOOD happened at all I really think the Dean beleived me. On the "watch" slip to teachers he checked a box that said my screwup was "disorderrly" to tell em what I did, but not the other boxes like the one that said "dishonesty" or the box for "subtance abusse" or "agressive." So I guess he beleived me. A teacher who likes me told me that the Dean did beleive me, too. And I said Im sorry to the kid whose shirt it was. He knows now it was temporary and when he heard I got seven swats he feels that was enough. He even told me he wished he had locked his locker.

The Dean also made me tell my parents and said he might call them to see if I did. I dont think he has called, but I told Dad that night and Dad said I was really stupid and should have just taken a little crap for going to class without a shirt. Dad also checked my butt and it was all red and everything but I guess not that bad because Dad wasnt mad at the Dean or nothing. Mom said my shirt wasnt in the bag when I had brought it home Friday and she thought it was still at school but it wasnt so I guess it was just lost.

OK I was stupid but it started because I just didnt want to get in trouble for having no shirt but now I see it would have been easier just to show up without them and tell Coach why. I sure dont want to get into ANY trouble now. Now (TEN paragraphs later!), Roger Kevin and Dave, I was just ansering your questions so I hope you dont chew me out too bad. -- Kyle


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Thursday, November 05, 1998, 1:38 PM

Dave you did guess wrong on one thing. I am NOT willing to chance it with more trouble and am NOT willing to take the licks any more. I was kind of thinking that way anyway before the shirt and locker thing. Now I am sure of it. If I get into anything at all that a teacher reports before the end of the year I have to do 4 weeks Discplinary Status. That would be a killer. Also three more swats, and I NEVER want to feel the board again from this Dean. I dont want Roger and those guys to get all worked up like they injure us for life or something, because they dont, but you guys on this forum who have felt the paddle with holes know it sucks real bad. Ive had 13 this year and thats all I ever want or need. So no Dave I am NOT wanting to mess around no more. - - Kyle


Roger Thursday, November 05, 1998, 10:11 AM

Kyle: What year are you in? How much longer do you have to endure that school? Is it private?


Jeff Friday, November 06, 1998, 11:12 PM

I havent post anything for while, but Roger I cant figure out what you want. You seem to ask more things than anyone and didnt even know what a pink belly was. Anyway we anser your million questions then you get all huffy. What did you mean asking how long Kile has to ENDURE school. He stole a shirt admitted it and got swats. If hes dumb enouf to do it again I guess he will ENDURE it again. But it sounds like he wont. So he messed up and got the board accross his butt. Even his pop checked it and didnt seem worried. Whats the big deal Roger?


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Saturday, November 07, 1998, 5:25 PM

Junior year in public school. Obvoisly I dont like getting into trouble any more but most of time I really like school and most of my teachers. I get good grades now and I like my friends. I have great parents and really nice girlfriend so Roger as long as I dont mess up I could indure this a long time!


Kevin Sunday, November 08, 1998, 10:50 PM

Kyle actually I believe you. For one thing if you were trying to be a real thief you never would have come clean when the guy started screaming where was his shirt. You just would have hidden it and ignored him. I have never met you of course but you seem to be a cool enough guy.

But now that I said that I think your punishment was fair even if harsh. The guy should have locked his locker. But it was his property, you went where you shouldn't have, and you had to pay for what you did. At your school & several others on this forum that obviously means the buttboard, and therefore, as one of my teachers would say, "so be it." Sorry, Guy, but it is supposed to hurt when you mess up. Glad you didn't have to do that "Disciplinary Status" thing.


Lori in Nebraska Monday, November 09, 1998, 12:05 PM

Kyle just so you know, Casey and I checked our student handbook here and it clearly says that any stealing at all gets "automatic minimum" of 10-days at-home suspension and that the suspension has to be followed by a "like period" of ISS. Later in the handbook it says that the principal in "very rare instances" can reduce a mandatory punishment by up to 50% which I guess would leave you with at least five and five. So I guess you're lucky you're not here.

-- Lori and "Three Tardies" Casey


Dave Tuesday, November 10, 1998, 4:46 AM

Kyle, I agree with Kevin: you're not a thief, you just made a mistake. You also seem to learn quick, so no bother.

I think your dean is sending you a message. Two strikes in two months is too much. He has to shut the mischief part of you down for a while, and the easiest way to do that is hanging DS and the paddle with holes, which has now earned a very healthy respect from you, over your head. Old trick-always works.

You did 2 really good things. You came clean when you found that you had put someone else in a mess. That was hard, but not as hard as deciding on 10 whacks plus DS to prevent a suspension. That took guts. Dave


Kevin Tuesday, November 10, 1998, 8:28 AM

Casey: Did your girlfriend let something slip in her November 9 posting? By calling you "Three Tardies" Casey is she telling us you got nailed with that punishment workout stuff you were worried about? Hope not, but that's what it looks like from what she said!


Casey near Omaha Wednesday, November 11, 1998, 5:52 PM

Yeah, THANKS A LOT FOR SHARING WITH THE WORLD, LORI! Guess that's what I get for telling about your Chemistry lab.

I did have my third tardy in a month last Wed., but since the "s. m.a. c" punishment classes always run Mon--Sat the workouts didn't start til yesterday (Mon.)

I mean they're hard and everything and it certainly tells you not to mess up, but they don't kill you. A whole hour with the guy working you hard and sounding mean is hard, but if you can just keep telling yourself it's only an hour, it helps. The real rough part is knowing that you have to get up again and do the same thing tomorrow and the day after that, and. . . .

Everybody says the Saturday morning one is the toughest because it's not only an hour, but they add on another 15 minutes at the end for each time during the week you've done something wrong in the workout. After two days I only have one 15-minute add on so far and that is because I didn't understand what one of the drills was supposed to be like yesterday morning. Some guys already have five or six add ons this week, after two days. My buddy said his Saturday morning when he had his s. m.a. c. was almost three hours total, so if I can just make it to Saturday without many more messups. . . .

As for the third tardy, I actually sort of did have a half way lame excuse, but it wasn't very good, so I didn't even bother with it and just took the week.

Since there has been so much talk on this Forum about which is dreaded more, and whether paddling is OK or not, and since I had the paddle when I was in Idaho, I have asked myself this week which is worse. They are totally different. The paddle is really bad but then you start to feel better and soon it is totally over. The workouts go on a whole hour day after day after day after day. I guess if I would have been able to choose I would take swats to get done, (which means s. m.a. c. is dreaded more) but that doesn't much matter since they don't do swats here. Each of the two things tells you you messed up, I guess.

Kyle: even though Lori and I did find that tough stealing punishment in our student handbook here and told you about it, you need to know that we too understand you weren't really evil in what you did. I bet your friends and teachers all know that, too. If you had it all over to do you probably should have gone out to p. e. with no shirt and told the Coach what happened, but it's over, and you're OK and that's what counts.

That's all from here in Nebraska for now. GO HUSKERS. BEAT KANSAS STATE! And be sure if Lori messes up in Chemistry again after what she said in her posting about me, you'll hear it here first!

-- Casey near Omaha


Roy Friday, November 13, 1998, 7:17 AM

Do you think female teachers are at times meaner than men..while paddling?


Steve Thursday, November 19, 1998, 8:33 AM

Kyle: your choice must have really difficult. Why did you not settle on the 10 suspension-would it be all that bad? I mean, you knew you were getting your butt smacked big time. Heck, it sounds a worse whipping than I ever had (at home), and I think I might have gone for any option that kept that paddle off my bum, for like 10 nasty whacks.

Also, do you think it is a good idea to give you a choice like that or do you think that they should just go ahead with the paddling? Steve


Kevin Friday, November 20, 1998, 12:38 PM

Steve let's see what Kyle says but if it were me I think I would have chosen what he did. I know I would. Look I've had eight with the paddle and holes three years ago and it is totally horribly awful and hurts like an SOB. Ten would be just hell. And it sounds like his discipline status thing with workouts and clean up is bad too. BUT. . . if I got suspended my grades would go way way down and the colleges would find out, and in my case I would have to leave the student court if I were suspended. So it wouldn't be a choice I'd have to somehow get through the swats, do the workouts and cleanup, and basically just take it. Let's see what Kyle says. OK, got to get back to class and there are kids waiting in the computer lab anyway.


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Friday, November 20, 1998, 4:55 PM

Steve, and Dave too, there really wasnt much of a choice for me. I knew right away I didnt want to let my family down, or my girlfriend, or screw up my record for the military and college.

Best I can remember, as soon as the Dean said "a ten day suspension, or" I thought right away, "I can't do that, so what is the OR?"

I couldnt take the suspension because ever since I was in elementary and jr high my parents had told me that suspension was for losers and, as my dad calls them, misfits. When I got swats once in junior high or maybe it was fifth or sixth grade I told Dad and he asked me what I did, and after it wasnt too bad he admitted to me that he had gotten licks and detentions all through school but he had always taken his medicine as he calls it. He said he tried to learn and NEVER been kicked out. A couple neighbor kids got suspended once and my parents opinion of them just went to heck. Its not that my parents would beat me or something but they would be real real disappointed and probably ground me bad too. Plus, Mom is on some school district parents committees and if word got around that Kyle got kicked out of school she would feel like crap.

After graduation--one more year--I think I will probably go in the military before college. Ive been working with Marine and Army recruiters and they told me for my MOS (specialty) I need to get my grades up and keep a pretty clean record. My grades are getting real good this year even I am surprised, and a ten-day suspension would kill the grades. Plus the military and later the colleges might see the suspension written down somewhere too, so there was no way.

So when the Dean said "OR" I knew that would be it. The ten swats would be bad of course but when he said a month (four weeks) discplinary status I really started thinking how bad that would be and how mad my girlfriend would be at me not being able to go to school or come home with her for a month while I was on discplinary status. It was bad enough when I had the two weeks for chewin.

It wasnt til I went and changed into gym shorts and then went back through the halls to the Deans office in shorts and shoes feeling like a real Dolt that I really began to get scared bad about the licks.

You're right 10 is bad. We didnt get to 10 of course, he stopped at seven and suspended three more and the discplinary status, and even the seven were awful but I really had NO CHOICE and if I were to do it all again Id do the same. Actually if I had it to do again I wouldnt have taken Eddie's shirt that started all this!

Steve I dont know if its our school policy or the school district or Texas law but he always allows you to get suspended if you object to the swats. So I guess they have to do that but I dont really know. Most guys take the paddle though. Two of my buddies just had to go see him this afternoon and neither took the suspension. I doubt if either of THEM is sitting down typing right now! -- From Kyle


Roger Friday, November 20, 1998, 7:42 PM

Kyle: I am glad that you are happy at your school. I thought your shirt story was scary. You lost your shirt and rather than feeling that you could get help from your teacher, you were afraid that he would punish the whole class to humiliate you. What is that all about. You were desperate and desperate people do desperate things. You screwed up, but I think it was understandable. I think they down too hard on you. That, plus the fact your school uses the term dean and not principal made me think you were at one of those private fundamentalist schools where they really think they have to "beat the Devil" out of you. I am glad I was wrong and it isn't as bad as I thought.

Roy: I haven't had experience with paddling, but I wouldn't be surprised if women are harder than men. I have noticed that women teachers take it more personally if you screw up and get madder than men; they are also not likely to have been paddled themselves, so they probably are giving out more pain then they understand.

Kevin: How is the student court going? Is "crime" down at your school or are you still busy? It sounds like fun to me. Does it make you want to be a judge or do you want to be somebody with more power--a vice prncipal?


Kevin Friday, November 20, 1998, 9:19 PM

Roger:

As I said this week our bathrooms are safe and clean, with a few exceptions. When I played freshman ball we never locked our lockers in the team room and I don't remember anything being stolen (but we do lock our lockers in the hall and the main gym locker room). (That's not a comment on what Kyle did--just that everybody in the team room trusted each other and knew they'd be in serious trouble if they were dishonest.)

There are fights here and I was in one myself 3 years ago, but there aren't many. There is tobacco. Sometimes liquor on campus.

I don't really think the court is the reason for our safety as I told Trisha on Sept. 22. But I do think the fact that our school, and another one close by here, are strict and have tough penalties keeps our schools decent, and I said that this week. (The other school has no student court but sure is strict.)

There are other schools around here where the principals aren't lazy or anything but they seem too busy to get real tough on some things, and those schools seem to have more problems. I really don't think it has to do with whether they have a student court though.

The court doesn't get involved in the real serious stuff like guns and hard drugs but the school and the police do, they are strict, and if you do it, you are out of here. When I hear about shootings at school and stuff I just count my blessings and hope it continues to be safe here.

As for how busy the court is we meet usually one or two times a week. I said in an earlier posting some of our meetings were simply for people wanting a VPR instead of a lot of detention. Except for a few teachers most now realize that they can give a VPR instead of detention if the kid wants, so they do it now if the kid asks. So we don't have to meet as much as we used to because we don't need meetings just to change detentions to VPR anymore.

I dont think I want to be a lawyer or judge, or a principal! I do like to represent folks and to make decisions that they trust us to make. Maybe I'd like to go into public office some day, but now that you know I'm from Arkansas and want to run for office don't get any ideas! I'm not like him.


Trevor C. Friday, November 20, 1998, 9:12 AM

Kyle I am wondering about what you wrote about having to leave your court if suspended?

Is that true for ISS too? What about for kids on your student council if you have one, not the court? The reason I ask is that we were caught with beer at homecoming on campus and had to choose between a total suspension or ISS but if we took ISS we got licks with The Board too.

We all took the ISS and the "hot seat" but you see I am on the student council--we don't have a court here in Fla. at my school--and I didn't know if I took the real suspension I'd have to quit the council or anything. And after the ISS nobody said nothin (I even missed a meeting while I was on ISS). Would I have had to quit the Council at your school?


Trevor C. Friday, November 20, 1998, 9:16 AM

Question I just wrote was for Kevin not Kyle. Sorry too many K's!


Kevin Saturday, November 21, 1998, 11:19 PM

Trevor I am not sure if ISS would force you out. I just went next door from the computer lab to the school library and got our student constitution. It says, "To serve and continue to serve in elective office, the student must have been in good standing consecutively for the most recent twelve months, or, for students in their freshman year, since the start of the current academic year."

Does ISS mess up "good standing?" I don't know but I'm sure total suspension would. I don't know of anyone on the court, or the council, who's had ISS or suspension. We did have a girl leave the court last year because her grades were down and she went on to grade probation. Other than that most members of both the court and council try to keep clean. There's an occasional detention and one of the junior class reps on the court just got in trouble for breaking a driving ban. He just got a car and parked it between a fire hydrant and driveway in the school lot, got a ticket and was banned from driving to school or school events for two weeks. Well, one of the counselors saw him drive to the school dance last week and called him in Monday, banned him for another month and let him choose between ISS or a VPR. He took the VPR but I'm not sure whether the ISS would have kicked him off the court or if he was thinking about that. Then he told a couple of us that he thought the VP went extratough on him with the buttboard because he was on the court. But I doubt it-- EVERY guy who gets a VPR thinks the VP went extratough on him! The VP is just that way!

Sorry I couldn't help more Trevor. If your school student body has a constitution you should see what it says.


Travis Sunday, November 22, 1998, 12:31 AM

I attend a boys' prep school that requires the students to swim in the buff in the pool during gym class. I hate being bare-assed in front of a dozen other guys. Is this a rule in other schools with pools?


Larry Monday, November 23, 1998, 10:40 PM

When I went to a fitness summer camp for guys the last couple of summers, they got you up every morning for exercises and then a two mile or five mile run. Ten miles on Saturdays. At the end, we did a half mile swim and they wouldn't let you wear your sweaty exercise shorts and jock, but the lodge was right there by the pool so they told us we could go into our bunk locker get another separate swim suit and put it on if we wanted. But, you didn't have to, and after the first couple days each summer nobody really did. They just stripped down took the shower and jumped in the pool.

If I would have felt that the counselors or the other kids were staring at me or something I probably would have put a suit on, but I don't think that happened much. One morning the first summer there was a delivery van with a lady driver bringing something to the camp and I think we caught her offguard but we just laughed and that only happened once.

But a bunch of guys swimming, as long as everybody is cool and not perverted or something how is that much different than the showers?

My big brother and his girlfriend were on vacation in California this summer and went to a nude beach near San Deigo. Now THAT'S COOL


Jessica Monday, November 23, 1998, 2:16 PM

I need some advice. Last week me and a friend got caught skipping off campus for lunch and got a day suspension. At my high school (in Texas), you can trade a suspension for VPR. I make good grades and a suspension usally means you get a "0" in your classes for the day, so I'm thinking of taking the paddling. The problem is that the girls VP is real bitch who enjoys using her paddle so much that she keeps in hanging on the wall of her office. Its about 3 feet long and signed by all the girls whose rear ends have received it. I'm a senior and haven't had a whipping since I was 15. That was at summer camp from a couselor who just used her hand, and that really hurt. I'm afraid that a paddling from our VP with her three foot board will be too much to take. I'm wondering just how much it really hurts. You guys make me really scared when you describe the pain. Obviously girls have a little more protection on their back side, but I'm only 5'3" 100 pounds and don't really have a full woman's butt yet. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me realistically just how much it hurts, especially any girls who have gotten the paddle recently in school. If I trade a suspension for VPR, I'll get six licks.


Kevin Monday, November 23, 1998, 4:45 PM

Larry we had a real similar thing at the sports camp I went to a couple of years ago and nobody wore the shorts in the pool after about 2 or 3 days. Your camp wasn't in Tennessee was it? Small world if so.

Jessica at our school the admin and the court would have tried to make you get it out of the way one way or the other and not give you all weekend to think about it. I'm not a girl of course but of course it hurts. I doubt seriously if she will kill you and I think you know my advice--don't take the suspension.

I think it's a real shame we lost Casey and his girlfriend from this forum everybody and hope it doesn't get to be bad so others leave.


Roger Monday, November 23, 1998, 7:02 PM

Jessica: A three foot long paddle? Have you had physics? And this woman enjoys paddling? Don't let this pervert near you with that thing. I am not surprised that she enjoys paddling girls. I think that probably a lot of teachers and VPs are "into" paddling kids. They get their jollies from it. I tried doing a serious net search on the subject of paddling. Using the word "paddling" you mainly get stuff about kayaking and canoeing. Use the word "spank" and all you get is _s_e_x_. There seem to be a lot of people who take pleasure in giving or getting beaten. I think Kevin's VP probabaly fits the bill too. He paddles too much and too hard and then shows up at a charity event to take hard swats himself without batting an eyelash. He may be a great guy but he is definately "into" this stuff. Jessica, look at the odds. Kevin is willing to take 10 licks (but gets only 7) to avoid a 10 day suspenson. You should take 6 with a 3 foot paddle for only a one day suspension? Guys may line up for swats because it is the macho thing to do, but I thought girls had more sense.


Travis Monday, November 23, 1998, 11:24 AM

I think there's a big difference between being allowed to swim naked and being told you have to swim naked. We are not given a choice. Adult groups use the pool too and they would never be told they have to swim bare. I think it disrespects us because they are treating us like little kids.


Nicki Sunday, November 29, 1998, 3:26 AM

Jessica, I can't answer your question directly, because I was never paddled at school. But my freshman year in college, I pledged a sorority and my fanny became very well aquainted with the paddle. My "big sister" was something of a sadist, and would look for excuses to "correct" me. I would always get the number of swats to match my age (18), and on the bare bottom.

One thing I learned that is the opposite of what you'd expect, is that it hurts less if you keep the muscles of your bottom as relaxed as possible throughout the paddling. When you bend over, take as much weight as possible off your legs and put as much weight as possible on your arms (assuming you are bending over a chair) and raise your bottom up as high as you can. Although your tendency will be to tense up, try and keep your bottom relaxed (like jello) and that way it will absorb the swats rather than resist them. Also, try and keep still and hold the same position throughout. This will be hard after the third swat, but if you wiggle your ass around around, your vice principal is a lot more likely to hit you in different places each time, so you lose the benefit of the numbness that builds up if each swat hits you in the same place.

Like I said, I used to get 18 swats at a time. Since you will only get six and I assume you will get to keep your pants up, I really don't think it will kill you. The only long term effect on me was that I was always pretty sore for a few days, especially when I would first sit down. If you can arrange to have your paddling at the end of the day, so you won't be sitting in class afterwards, that would probably help. Good Luck!


Jim Monday, November 30, 1998, 3:54 PM

I don't think that Dave's and Mike's comments are kinky. They were just descriptive and in both cases they served their purpose. I was surprised that you dug some of them up from the ancient past.

Roger, you really are scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Teachers do volunteer to take some pretty nasty treatment at the hands of their students, for the sake of charity and a good laugh. They are usually approached by some pretty gutsy students and saying no would show lack of courage. And perhaps Kevin's VP wanted to make the point that he is capable of taking what he dishes out. I would certainly respect him for that. In addition, you have no evidence that he volunteered because he enjoys it. I rather doubt that he does. That paddle sounds like it could be very painful in the hands a slightly vindictive senior, and no one is that masochistic! Jim.


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Saturday, December 05, 1998, 11:29 AM

About the spanking even though theres been an awful lot here on what my butt went through this semester I agree with Tyler a lot there too. Ill try to explaine. First, Tyler, its more than the TEACHERS forum. It says TEACHERS at the top but if you go back to the menu page of the teen forums theres one to talk about administrations. I clicked on that way back when I started here months ago and it takes you to TEACHERS, theyre one and the same. So I was really trying to write about the amidnistrators at my school, particularly the dean of boys.

I just went back and looked and I really really tried to ask everybody if they thought he was too strict because I got discplinary (punishment) status AS WELL AS the paddle for chewin tobacco. I tried to make it real clear that my big problem was with discplinary status and not the swats as we are pretty used to them in Texas.

But everybodys interest seemed to be in the paddle. I even got some emails asking me a lot of gory details, which I really didn't give or care about. One email even asked me what color my face was when I was taking the swats which I thought was pretty funny because I really wasnt worried about my FACE!

Here on the forum Kevin and Trisha and Scott and I got into a discussion on what school punishment was supposed to be and all that. I wasnt gonna totally refuse to describe the swats. Of course I said they hurt bad because they did and are sposed to. But I left out the gory details and wrote mainly about what the administrators did to enforce the rules, and so did others like Kevin, Scott, Casey, Lori, Ryan and Rick, and Trisha (and her boyfriend).

I think it kinda cool that kids can discuss what their administrators and deans and principals do and dont do in different parts of America and the world. I like the forum for that, and if it means some people mentioning that their schools paddle and others dont, thats fine.

But where I started to feel weird was on all the intense detail about the intrikate descriptions of the paddlings, about saying it hurts less if you relax your butt so its like Jell-o and all that. (How could anybody relax then anyway? --grin--)

So dudes and girls thats a long way of saying some of us really would rather talk about teachers AND administrations, and if it means mentioning that some schools use tough swats, or detentsions, or suspension, or discplinary status, that is fine. But when it gets into all the gory details, and, particularly, it makes some of us like Casey and Lori and Tyler, AND ME, nervous. That's just how we feel but I guess others may not agree. -- From Kyle


Debbie Tuesday, December 15, 1998, 10:14 PM

I attend a private Christian School in Florida. I was paddled last week for talking in class. Does that seem fair to anyone. I got six swats by the PE teacher (the pricipals are male) and it was the worst pain I ever felt. I was humiliated! There were two other girls that were spanked at the same time, and they say I should just get over it. My butt had welts for two days. This should not be legal!


Kevin Tuesday, December 15, 1998, 1:46 PM

I was looking over this forum--the good, the bad and the ugly--yesterday and I noticed the fact that time after time after time after time (!) Kyle just can NOT spell "disciplinary," as in the disciplinary status workouts and trash pickup he had to do. If he went to your school and they saw this forum, he'd go through a BUNCH of ball point pens. Guess we know how he'd be spending his Christmas vacation!

And now that I've been mean, let me turn it around. Kyle, Merry Christmas, Dude! You've had a tough semester and you've earned it (even if you can't spell).


Dave Thursday, December 17, 1998, 5:44 PM

Yeh, Dehbbie I support the paddling that you got. You go a school where a butt tanning is normal. You knew that before anyone ever whacked you. How can you complain?

Also, I don't know if this was as isolated as your posting sounds-you may not have been all that good before, or the class needed a shock to it get back into line. We can't judge that, but your teacher certainly felt that it was time to crack the whip, so to speak. That is good enough for me.

If you really needed to take an alternative punishment, would the school still make to take the paddle? How old are you? Dave


Jeff Friday, December 18, 1998, 12:49 PM

Debbie here at my school in Okla. they usually won't give swats for talking in class unless they warn you first and then they will usually try detention, and if that doesn't work it's the board. We don't know all the history with you and talking but if it is the rule you get paddled for it, then why did you do it? If it is the rule and you weren't singled out then what is your problem? I agree with your friends who got it too. Just live with it and don't mess up again. As for the pain I thought that was the purpose!--unless they hurt you permently or something. Last time I got it, it was nasty and I hated it but I tried to learn from it and it wasn't permennt or somthing. I haven't gone back for more!


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Friday, December 18, 1998, 2:33 PM

Kevin how cute! OK, the word is "Disciplinary" but if you think I'm going to write it 1,000 times you are nuts Dude.

I might have trouble spelling that word but I do know how to spell "VPR' and I am going to write to the North Pole with that as my Christmas wish for YOU! Just kidding Dude.

You mentioned my tough semester but actually because we broke for 10 days at Thanksgiving our semester goes on three weeks in January, but this is the last week before Christmas. That is related here because the Dean of Boys made an offer this week to 3 of us who have suspended punishments like the one that I wrote about here (4 weeks disCiplinary status + 3 more swats that were suspended when I took the 7 licks for borrowing that dude's shirt, suspended if I stay out of trouble totaly til June).

The Dean said that if we can go to the last week of the semester in Jan. with no trouble he will let us take ONE week of disCiplinary status (and no swats) and then free us of the threat for the second semester. I hate the disciplinary status but the three of us talked it over and think we'll all do it--it is just risking too much to have to go all the way to June without so much as a one minute tardy. My girlfriend and mom and dad agree. So in a way I am scared of the third week of January but in a way I want to get it over wtih and be FREE! (Turns out two other guys had suspended punishments and got into some sort of trouble and had to take the whole deal and the Dean wasnt kind. I sure dont want that.)

Merry Christmas everybody -- from Kyle.


Kattie Wallace Kattie20@hotmail. com Tuesday, December 22, 1998, 8:58 PM

I attended a all girls school in Kentucky from the age of 13 to 18. I know there are alot of people who wont beleive things like this go on but it is true. When I got in trouble for just about any little offense I was given a spanking. The spankings were usually given in the attic of the school by one or two teachers. There was a old gymnastics horse in the middle of the floor, we were made to lift our skirts and bend over the horse and touch the matt on the other side. The teacher would spank us with a lether paddel usually ten times. There was two teachers there that I believe were lesbians. When they would paddel us they would alwasy do it together, and they would alwasy pull our panties down. They would prolong the spanking by asking us stupid questions between each swatt. I beleive they used this time to look at our bottoms for their own pleasure. They never made any _s_e_x_ual advances twords me but I had heard stories of girls they had done this to. I dont think this is the only school out there where this happens. I would like to hear from other females who have experenced this. Thanks very much Kattie. P. S. Please E-Mail me


chad Parker chadp@ipa. net Sunday, December 27, 1998, 12:27 PM

My name is Chad Parker and I am 26 Years old. I live in Fayetteville, Arkansas. I have read some of the remarks that were made especially from the top of this page, I am very disapponted if this happen, That it takes to teachers to disapine a student like that. Those two teachers alt to be fired imeadatley or supeneded without pay. If this is what is going on in the public schools in Kentucky maybe some one olt to call the State Board of Education.


Kevin Sunday, December 27, 1998, 6:11 PM

Chad Parker, old man! As another Arkansan I agree with most of your comments about Kentucky, except for the one about needing two teachers. At least at my school here in Ark. I'm told the VP brings in a staff member from a nearby office when he gives the buttboard. Also, when I got it from the head coach for beating up that guy (also named Chad!) there was another coach there. I'm not sure whether it is Arkansas law or just our school practice, but the adult usually has a witness. It was the same way in other schools before I got to h. s. Did you go to school in Arkansas and did they paddle? If so did they have witnesses when you guys got it?

BUT just the fact that they have two doesn't mean that they should harass or get _s_e_x_ual or anything, or pull some girl's (or guy's) underwear down.

They should be fired if they get _s_e_x_ual and maybe even taken to court and jail, I agree. Actually, I would think that if there were two adults there it would be tougher to get _s_e_x_ual and do wrong, unless they made a real conspiracy to do it.

Since hers was all-girls school I guess it is private, so I don't know that the State Board of Education can help.

Kattie talked about pulling panties down. This whole thing about the bare butt swats just blows me away. We've never had it at our schools, and from what I felt over the shorts they certainly don't need to make it bare to make it hurt. My dad said something about bare butt paddlings in his college fraternity a long time ago, but other than just a threat I've certainly never heard about it in my schools, so, Chad Parker, I agree the Kentucky story is a little shocking. Glad you spoke up.


chad n/a Monday, December 28, 1998, 12:38 PM

Kevin, I agree with your comments. I did see a coach hit a high school senior back in 1988.The coach was fired. This kid had to have his face recustructed. I went to High school here in Fayetteville, Arkansas. I graduated from High School back in 1990 and have heard that they change the rules on Spankings. They did I remeber a Time that they did one and it serevely Injured that Student. I beleive that it rupured his spiline and he had to get it surgically removed. Also my Senior Year we had a class size of 310 and a Senior Class president and principal who did not tollant this. I now have a son who goes to school over in Chandler Oklahoma. Oklahoma has a very strict law on spankings. Just recentlly they past a no spankings in pubilc school act. My son is in Elementry School and has a 4.0 Grade Point Avg.


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Monday, December 28, 1998, 2:06 PM

Chad I'm not sure what you mean by an Oklahoma no spanking in public schools act. They may not do it in Chandler where your son is. I have cousins across the state. Some say they no longer spank in their schools. They do in my district, and they have even started doing it on girls.

But it is always an option for the kid, never required, and a couple months ago they started sending out permission slips for parents to sign (most did; mine did) rather than before just saying a parent could object if they wanted to, now they have to agree in writing in our district. And it is certainly NOTHING like Kattie wrote about in Kentucky or the ruptured spleen you talked about in Ark.

Three of us got in trouble for mouthing off bad in class just before Christmas. I chose two one-hour detentions over the four-swat option because if you take that option and then get in trouble before the end of the schoolyear the option goes up to EIGHT and I've had that and it is bad. My two buddies got paddled--they took the option and are done with it but I was sick the last two days before Christmas break and didn't serve the detentions yet. My buddies are telling me I really should take the swats when I get back and they are making me feel like a little wimp, so I might do that rather than the detentions. Not sure yet.

Anyway, Chad, yes you are right Oklahoma is strict with the schools about paddling. But there are some public schools that still have it, so it must be somehow legal under the law. But they sure don't paddle you bare or break your spleen or send you to the hospital or nothing.


Chad N/A Tuesday, December 29, 1998, 12:16 PM

Mark, By the Oklahoma Law I was refering to about Spankings was it is illegal to abuse the padling method. When I went to high School from 1987-1990 Arkansas had no guildlines for Pandling Kids. That Story was very true. In fact at Little Rock Central they had a very bad case that year of over padling a kid. However I beleive that the public schools are at fault for the lack of disapine they now have, I am a Christain and I believe that when the federal Government steped in and told the School Districts how to teach a kid and take the lord out of Public Schools there is something wrong and over time it has gotten worse. When I went to school we never got Suspended for passing a note or Bring in a Pocket Knife as long as the blade was not over 2" Long. This country is nuts when it comes to this. Second we never brought Firearms to School and we never had Metal Detectors. True we had Drugs when I went to school, However it was not a big problem. We also had Peer Groups and Could talk to our Class President if we had any Concerns or even the Pricipal or Assiant. from want I read of the Teen World Forum If you go and talk to your Pricipal or Conuselor or Assassant Pricipal they would rather Igore you then talk to you. It was good talking to you Mark and Have a Nice Day.


Will M willnotwill@yahoo. com Wednesday, December 30, 1998, 2:45 PM

See we haven't found anything better to talk about than our punishments... what a rut.


will m. Wednesday, December 30, 1998, 4:55 PM

Ok...whose your coolest teacher. Whose your worst teacher. Our coolest is Ms. Fisher. She's real nice and she even lets us call her by her first name (Melanie). She's a babe too.

Of course, probably my worst is Mrs. Harris, what a ball busting witch.


Kevin Wednesday, December 30, 1998, 6:56 PM

Will, my coolest teacher by far is the head of our social science faculty who was my civics teacher (last) junior year. What's cool about him is that he is super about getting every student to relate to civic events, then remember every opinion so that when the event changes in the news from day to day he picks right up in the discussion. When you've got 25 kids in five or so classes a day and you virtually never forget, that is really hard to do! And he always make it interesting, it really keeps you on your toes.

What's even cooler about the guy is that he learns each student's interests--like me on the court--he keeps that in mind even after you left his class. He's come to me this year with all sorts of scholarship possibilities, and he got me into that leadership conference on the East Coast this fall, all paid for. There is one guy working on his Ph. D. at the University of Arkansas who's been out of high school forever, and he goes to our church. This guy tells me that this h. s. teacher is making helpful suggestions on his doctorate even now, ten years or so, after he had him in class. This guy NEVER stops helping and never forgets, even for students who aren't that good, as long as they try. Now that's COOL.

Now, what do you all think of Will's female "babe" teacher allowing them to call her by her first name? Does anybody else think that might reduce the amount of respect and therefore the ability to learn, or not?

We had a paraprofessional in 7th grade who we called "Judy." The next year she was hired as a full teacher and out of habit we still called her that but she was careful to ignore us until we changed and called her Mrs. Johnston.


Brandon Preppy141@yahoo. com Wednesday, December 30, 1998, 7:26 PM

I am a sophomore at a private Catholic boarding school in Georgia. They paddle A LOT and a I am regular recipitant :) They also cane and I've had my share of 'six of the best', but only the headmaster can cane. What is different about my school is that you don't have to be 'written up' to get a paddling. If you are misbehaving the teacher can take you into the hallway and give it to you, over clothes of course. My school is all boys but you can be paddled by male and female teachers.

Since I play sports most of my female teachers who don't liek to paddle will tell my coach that I need to be paddles and he will do it much worse! Also he can do it on the bare bottom!

We also have seniors who are like teacher s in the boarding houses who can spank or paddle us, or they can report us for a caning.

I just usually take the bare-butt spanking by the senior than a caning! If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Or e-mail me at above address.


Corey Wednesday, December 30, 1998, 1:54 AM

Come on! You are a sophomore in high school and you get paddled on your BARE bottom? I don't believe it. Give us the name of this school.


Kevin Wednesday, December 30, 1998, 8:32 AM

For the sake of kids reading this forum around the world, I will say this again, even clearer. I have been to a lot of student and church conferences in the U. S. Everyone I have ever talked to who got swats in a U. S. school in recent years got 'em with some type of clothing on his (usually it was guys) butt. No bare butt in school among anybody I have talked to in Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida or wherever. So I agree with Corey.

Why all the concern about this? Is it _s_e_x_ or something? Beleive me it isn't the sting because they can get your attention REAL WELL without giving them out bare butt. They just don't need to do that, and with people I have known they don't.

Obviously I can't come out and call Brandon, Kattie and Jennifer liars because I wasn't there at their schools. But it seems unlikely to me.

So if you are reading this around the world and conclude that U. S. teachers and principals run around beating naked kids, be careful people.


Will M. willnotwill@yahoo. com Thursday, December 31, 1998, 12:43 PM

Actually, we have more respect for Melanie Fisher than we have for most teachers. I'd never call that old bag Ms. Harris by her first name, but I respect her less (as you might guess) than others.

If your teacher is worth respect and says she doesn't mind if you call her by her first name, whats the deal?


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Thursday, December 31, 1998, 1:03 PM

Kevin and Will our coolest teacher by far is one we had in eighth grade. She has been crippled and in a wheelchair her whole life from a birth problem but she is the most cheerful and smart person in the whole world. She's only got one good arm but drives that chair like you can't believe. And when the doctor told her and her husband that he thought they could have healthy children, she did have a real cool little guy. Pregnancy was real hard for her but she worked right up to the end and never complained. School kids who think they have problems just need to look to her and they cheer up in a hurry. Now that's a cool lady.

On other subjects, Will I've never had a teacher who let you call him or her by first name, and Kevin youre right the licks with a paddle are always over shorts here and I'm not really sure what I think of kids who claim they arent at their schools.

Happy New Year dudes and girls! -- From Kyle


Brandon Thursday, December 31, 1998, 4:09 PM

You are right Kevin... You don't know because you are not there, therefore you have no right to call anyone a liar!!


Sean Thursday, December 31, 1998, 5:07 PM

Sorry to intrude guys, but I was just skimming through this board and read Brandon's message. I also go to a private Catholic school, mine in Florida and I'm a 9th grader. They paddle at my school also. But only coaches and the headmaster do it. Over clothes of course. I have never heard of a 'bare butt' paddling. That sounds a little weird to me! And trust me as an athelete and student I have been paddled many times. Which is very painful at my school! We also have a thing like the list at my school where you have to go before and after school for sort of like a workout. Sean


Scott Collins Friday, January 01, 1999, 8:38 AM

Other people have started to answer the first half of Will's question on who's the coolest teacher. We have a bunch of cool teachers but I've got to answer his second question about the worst. By far the worst at our school are the subs. Only one or two substitutes are any good at all and one is pretty cool. But most are lazy and not very smart and worst of all they really don't care about doing anything but standing there and collecting their money. We sassed that one earlier in the year that got us onto The List and we shouldn't have done that I know. But she did not even care what our regular teacher had been teaching us and she was just a jerk. Mom says it is because they don't pay them much more than working at McDonalds or something.

How are the substitutes at y'all's schools?


Scott Collins Friday, January 01, 1999, 8:49 AM

I have a question for Sean. But I also want to keep Will's new thread going about coolest and worst teachers so I answered his question in a 2nd post which should be right next to this one.

Sean you say they have The List or something like it at your school but that they have the paddle too. My question is which is the worst in most guys opinion which do they dred most? Can they choose?

The reason I ask is because when they started The List here they did away with licks in high school. After suffering through The List a couple of times I know I would prefer just to take a little fire on my butt and get it done, but my big brother who got that in high school said the way our school administered it to h. s. guys was real nasty and I should be glad it's The List now. Dad says that he's heard that in order to scare off guys at the high school level they had to make it really bad with the paddle and that some parents though not him were starting to object.

So I was just wondering which you and most guys would rather do and which is the most effective penalty at your school.

Also, your List is before AND after school too? Together with your regular gym class that's THREE workouts in a day? Yeek! Do they have girls at your private Catholic school? Do they have a List for them too? Licks?


Will M Tuesday, January 05, 1999, 1:30 PM

Subs aren't too bad, occasionally you get a mean one, but really they don't do much, just whatever the teacher left for them if they did. Otherwise, we just sit around and do nothing that class.


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Tuesday, January 05, 1999, 5:42 PM

Kevin to answer your question today was the first day after Christmas vacation, our first day back at school, and I actually did decide to take the 4 licks like my friends had. That way I don't have to do the two detentions. That was just a couple of hours ago at 3 o colck Oklahoma time so I am a little bit tender now but it is O-V-E-R!.

I decided to do this over the weekend because the detentions are crummy I knew it would be cold and I would miss the bus with detentions and have no way home. But then I had to think about it all the way to today and that was almost as bad as the swats. Well, not quite that bad:(

Even this way I missed the bus but it took only 5 minutes after school and one of my buddies with a car waited on me. He teased me a little on the way home and said he would hit a few extra bumps for me to feel!, but he admitted he had had his share of the paddle too. The same coach doled them out who paddled me last year and this guy knows how to swing, real well.

Kevin I think I probably chose right but the hard part now is not getting anything more than a short one-detention or something before the end of school this spring, because if I take the swats option a second time it will be 8 like last spring, or even 10 if it is a substitute for a suspension. So I gotta be careful because I have had my fill of that "holy" (with an e) paddle. Hope that answers your question Kevin.

Will and Scott our substitutes aren't too bad here. They usually do try to find out what has been happening with the class and the studies, and do their best to keep the class moving. Some do better than others, so what else is new there.--Mark T.


Sean Tuesday, January 05, 1999, 8:02 PM

Scott, to answer your questions most of the time we don't have a choice. Sometimes ,it depends on what we do, we may get both. I have sports practice so I always get the paddle anyway. But our list is before and after school too. Because of sports I've never had it but a lot of guys choose the paddle just to get it over with. Also there are no girls here so I don't know about girls getting the list. About licks, it depends on what grade you are in and what you did of course, but it usually starts at 4 and goes up by 2 everytime. But I've had 4 like three times in a row. As matter of fact I got 4 today! :) Sean


Will M. willnotwill@yahoo. com Wednesday, January 06, 1999, 2:44 PM

Yeah, bad subs aren't anywhere as bad as bad regular teachers. Subs can't give you a bad grade. Subs will be gone in a few days. Fortunately, I'll be free of the old bag I have for english in a few weeks at the end of the marking period. I just hope she doesn't slam me too hard on my report card.


Steve Saturday, January 09, 1999, 5:14 AM

With all this stuff about girls and guys getting paddled on their naked butts, I asked my bother Mike whether that actually went on at his school. He always got the cane or paddle across his grey flannels or gym shorts with jock strap but he could see that in a boarding environment where senior kids are having to look after younger boys, the seniors might slap some naked butt to get the kids to do as they are told. This happened to me when I was 11 and at camp. I was being a real dumb ass and not going to bed-just giving the councillor a hard time-so he warmed my bare ass (I was buck naked at the time) with his hand. Also, a friend of mine was caught 'mooning' and he got his bare butt smacked with a paddle.

I'm sorry Kevin but you're wrong about getting wacked on the naked butt or shorts. I've had several hidings (with a leather belt) on both. It stings a whole lot more with nothing covering your skin. Also, let's face it, you're much more vonerable with your naked butt exposed like that and that's when you really get scared.

I guess what I'm saying is that there are times that it could casually happen so they may not be lying, but for normal school discipline, you're right, it doesn't seem necessary and probably too embarrassing (no pun intended!) for everybody for it to actually happen at a day-school. If my dad ordered me to take my briefs down for a sound hiding, then I would have to accept that as my sorry fate, but if a teacher did so, no way, man!!

On the issue of choice, if we had any, I would probably go for the paddle as I know that I can tolerate it (with shorts on!!) and then things would be over. It is too bad that Mark had to think about it over the holidays. But Mark, I don't think you ought to even think of the 10 wacks you'd get to replace a suspension-you're not suppose to do things that get you kicked out of school, dude!!!


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Sunday, January 10, 1999, 10:52 PM

Steve of course you aren't supposed to mess up and get kicked out but sometimes you get in a fix and that is what those of us who have taken our 4 are worried about. At our school there is a minimum two-day suspension for fighting even if you didn't start it. Now look I have never been in a fight at this school (a couple away from school that they didn't know about), and if some guy starts something with me I'll try to just leave. BUT sometimes you can't just be a wimp and run away scared and no honor. If I'm cornered or my worth is on the line I'll defend and so will my friends.

I really think I can avoid trouble until the end of the school year but there is of course a chance and that is what is scary. The swats option at our school is probably good but its pretty strong stuff and 10 would be terrible. Even eight last year was nasty and unless there were really special circumctances again I would choose any detentions and stuff instead of take eight. But I guess if I had a suspension hanging I'd have to take the swats because Dad has said he would make me, he doesn't like suspensions at all. So that's what I meant Steve when I wrote that on Monday.

Last I need to say that ten swats at our school is pretty rare maybe no more than three or four kids a year. Discipline is supposed to be private but word usually gets out. A couple guys have started to take the ten and couldn't get through it so took the whole suspension instead!

When I was a soph the senior class president got in just the type of fight I am scared about, and took ten. He made it all the way, and was just kind of quiet about it around school after the punishment and didn't say much. But I know him from church basketball and he told me later that it was really really a horrible thing to happen and it hurt incredibly bad (but not permanent damage). And no they don't hit your naked butt here.


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Sunday, January 10, 1999, 11:08 PM

Will, I hope your "old bag" English teacher doesn't surf the Net and find this forum before your "marking period" is over!


Jeff Sunday, January 10, 1999, 1:50 PM

Hey Mark, from one Sooner to another, Go Oklahoma! Guy, I sorry you got in trouble and really sorry you had to think about it over vacation. But look at this way. You already said it's "O-V-E-R" but more than that, its made you want to stay out of trouble for the rest of the year. You are going to try like crazy to avoid fights because you know the punishment is bad and the board with holes HURTS! But you also are going to fight for your honor if you haf to. If you do, youre gonna have to take a nasty licking but they don't hurt you permently at your school and don't go barebutt or nothin. So youre gonna try to stay clean and try real hard, but if you dont it wont kill you. When you think about it isnt that they way it is sposed to work? I'm sorry you got paddled but if it keeps you clean in the future maybe it wasn't all bad.

Will and Scott our substitutes here are pretty cool most times.


Philip T. Sunday, January 10, 1999, 5:31 AM

I attend a private school in Tennessee where corporal punishment is permitted. It is administered with a leather strap to the open hand of a student. Last week I got in trouble and had to report to the vice-principal. She just started at our school last September therefore I had never dealt with her before. To make a long story short I had to hold out my hands and received three lashes on each palm. Although it stung quite a bit it was kind of funny watching Mrs D.īs breasts bouncing in front of me while she swung the strap. Itīs hard not to pull away your hands in this situation. Did anybody else ever ge the strap in school?


WillMeade willnotwill@yahoo. com Tuesday, January 12, 1999, 3:13 PM

swats swats swats, thats the easy way out (wish I had it).


Steve Tuesday, January 12, 1999, 4:11 PM

Mark, that sucks. I didn't realise that any fighting would get you kicked out or 10 swats-that's pretty strict. I know that schools have to discourage fighting but every guy is going to be challenged and even if it is just playful, you have to hold your own ground. I don't like fighting because I see no point in it. I also think that guys who bully or regularly start fights should get kicked out or get their butt paddled big time or both. But self defence should not be that bad. Maybe the first guy or repeated offender should get 10 and the other guy 5 or something.

I guess Jeff is right: your school must have very few fights with 10 wacks for each guy doing the fighting. If so, your school is a little inflexible but it sure gets results!

Kevin and Kyle, what do you feel about the fighting rule? Steve.


Mark Thomas markthomas@iname. com Tuesday, January 12, 1999, 7:43 PM

Steve: I know Will won't like the talk turning back to punishments, but I want to be clear what I was talking about when I said ten for fighting. It's a little complikated. At our school there is a swats option that you can take no more than 2 times in a school year and substitute it for another punishment (if your parents have approved corporal punshment and if you aren't disabled). The first time you take the option it is always four, the second time it is eight. But if it is in place of a suspension they add two more. Since I took swats option once last week if I take it again it is eight, and since fighting brings a two-day suspension at least, substituting the swats for a suspension would be two more. So, 8+2=10. That's what happened to the senior class president in the fight he got into when I was a sophomore and that is why I am going to try to avoid fights now. Anything else I could take the detentions or Saturday school or whatever and avoid the eight swats but Dad won't let me take the suspension and I'd have to take 10 for a fight. I won't fight--unless I get forced into it.--Mark T.


Kyle murray7150@aol. com Friday, January 15, 1999, 11:52 PM

Steve I saw your question a couple days ago but I haven't had a whole lot of time to repond and am doing this quickly from the school internet and computing room. This is the week the three of us are doing one week of disciplinary status to get off that horrible probation that would have lasted until summer vacation. I wrote about it last year. The after school cleanup is easy but boring, but the morning workouts are tuff. At least I will be off probation at the end of this week. Anyways I haven't had much time. Steve you ask what I thought about Marks schools fighting rule, with heavy swats or getting kicked out even if you dont start the fight. The Dean here is pretty wicked on fighting and when there are fights I hear alot about at least eight with the paddle and holes, and sometimes he kicks guys out. My buddy got swats for a fight he didnt start last year. I think eight but I dont remember for sures but he said it was pretty wicked. I heard one of my teachers say once that everybody always says its the other guys fault so they have to be tuff so that people will try to avoid fights even if the other guy is trying to start one. What I dont know is whether the Dean gives a lighter number if he really thinks you didnt start it but I do know he was tough on my buddy. So to answer your question Steve I guess the system at Marks school sounds pretty normal to me. -- From Kyle


Ben Sunday, January 17, 1999, 10:44 AM

Do you guys who get paddled at school get spankings at home too? My parents always spanked me if I got in trouble at school, even if I had already gotten paddled at school. I still get spanked at home and I am 15! My dad has a paddle like the kind they have at school, with the holes.


Travis H. Sunday, January 17, 1999, 11:42 AM

Ben -- My high school doesn't paddle, but they might just as well because everytime I get a detention my dad paddles me. I think 15 is too old for spanking, particularly bare ass, which is how my dad always does it.


Ben Monday, January 18, 1999, 9:44 AM

Travis,

I get paddled by my dad over underwear never bare-butt.. but I used to when I was younger


David Lucky51181@AOL. com Sunday, January 31, 1999, 10:34 AM

I went to a spanking school in Texas, in Hurst Texas in between Dallas and Ft. Worth next to Bedford anyways I was sent to be paddled as much as I am stubborn I felt I was right and no paddling should be done witch I think just screws up peoples minds it did me when I was younger made me crazy and beat up people in any event I was going to tell the Prinsaple off and that is what I did then the witness thought to hold me down then I threw a chair into his ribs and threw a chair at the Prinspale walked out there was hearing on it with the school bord I was returned to school after two weeks in a Detention Cell in county lock up. Every time I got into trouble as much as he wanted to and as much promission my parents gave him he never once ever threaten me with a paddle again for as long as I there... The moral of this is that you can always fight back for your rights but the way I did it was completely wrong I wish I had never cracked the witnesses ribs or smashed the principle face with a desk just reason with them but hold your grounds if you wish at all not be spanked and they force it against your will you do as I did ... and you will have a better case in court well there is my sympathy and wise tail of wisdom for the day David Based on a true story...


matt matt9922@aol. com Saturday, February 06, 1999, 2:51 PM

I am 17 and a senior and still get spanked by my dad. So for those guys who think the are too old or too big (I am 6'1, 185 and play varsity football and baseball) to be spanked, think of me over my dad's knee getting a spanking!!!


THE END


More stories by Pi Kapp